When Your “Favorite” Christian Leader Is In Serious Error, How Do You Respond?

Scripture teaches over and over that we are to separate from error.  We are told to “have nothing with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Eph. 5:11).  2 Cor. 6:14 says to not be yoked together with unbelievers. 

I am continually amazed, but also not surprised, at the fast pace of compromise in the Christian world, year after year.  We are watching once solid leaders ignoring biblical principles of separation as they turn to hold hands with almost anyone who declares themselves Christian, in spite of clear evidence of apostate behavior.  As Ken Silva points out in his recent article (David Barton Controversy), one leader after another is becoming involved in various joint ventures to unite all “Christians” with the goal of making the world a better place.

 

The latest compromise is the Under God Indivisible Leadership Conference.  It was held on July 27 and was described as “people of faith across the nation come together to call on God for the next Great Awakening.”  In Pastor Ken’s article excerpt below, you will see what I mean by the compromise that has happened with such prominent and supposedly solid Christian leaders such as Ravi Zacharias, David Jeremiah, and Franklin Graham

 

Concern #1: The Leaders Who Compromise

Ravi Zacharias has shown signs of compromise in the past, so it is not the first.  I was first taken aback when Ravi shared the stage with leaders of the Mormon church at their conference, and never once made it clear that that the Jesus of Mormonism is not the same Jesus of true Christianity.  Then there was the time where he made a reference to Henri Nouwen as “one of the greatest saints of recent memory.”  (video, at 5:45).
Nouwen was a Roman Catholic monk who blended Eastern mysticism with Christianity.  Ravi also spoke at New Age heretic Robert Schuller’s ReThink conference.  How hard has Ravi fallen down?  And how much more compromise will he make in the direction of apostasy?

David Jeremiah is another who has made a terrible mistake by joining hands with this group.  Jeremiah already has compromised in the past.  He wrote a great book that exposed the New Age, but now he himself is promoting contemplative mysticism.  Then there are well known evangelicals like Tony Evans, James Robison, and David Barton.  They all decided to join the bandwagon of this ecumenical movement alongside false teachers such as John Hagee, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, and also with Roman Catholic leaders such as Jonathan Morris and Robert Sirico.  The lineup also included prominent political commentator Glen Beck, a Mormon who is fast becoming accepted as a fellow “Christian” by evangelical Christians.  Why is this happening, and why are they sharing the stage with Beck?

 

There are many others.  The full lineup of speakers who compromised that evening is listed at the end, and you can listen to each of them here.  Although the video is nearly three hours long, you will be able to jump any section to listen to a specific speaker.  

 

Concern #2: Christians Who Do Not Like It When Their “Favorites” Are Called Out

From time to time, I get a disapproving email from someone when I mention a favorite of theirs who has compromised the Gospel.  I have been criticized for mentioning such popular folks as Beth Moore, for instance, who has been shown to not only be biblically unsound, but who is favorably promoting contemplative spirituality.  I’ve been told not to “go there”  as I continue my investigation of popular evangelist Dan Bohi and some of his teachings and associations, which I will be reporting on soon.  As I bring to light information on what he is preaching, and what he is claiming to have done, and who he associates with- I wonder, what will you say?

I have no doubt… in fact I am certain to lose some friends after that comes out.


Yet, as Christians we are not to show favoritism towards any teacher or preacher if they start to teach anything that is contrary to God’s word.  We should not overlook someone’s error and give them a free pass if it contradicts Holy Scripture.  No one is above scrutiny except the One who is above scrutiny.

Most of you would in principle agree with what I just said, but in practice, some of you fail at following this principle when your own “ox is being gored.”  In other words, it depends on whether the criticism of that teacher goes against your own interests or not.  This is dangerous territory, and is an indication of clouded judgment at best, and worse, an indication that you are experiencing deception that could continue to get worse and worse for you.  What in the world is going on, when so many of these “great” leaders are continuing to fall by the wayside, and at the same time, so many of you cannot see the obvious right in front of your noses?

 

I shudder to think how much worse it will get, but I believe it is going to get much worse.  We are seeing signs all around of a widening apostasy, and it seems the true Christian church will be comprised of small groups scattered around the world, while the majority of “Christians” will become part of a worldwide unity of false Christians and other religions under the leadership of the Anti-Christ.  There are certainly no indications in Scripture that the end times will bring a great revival in the church, as so many are saying will happen.  Rather, Scripture clearly tells is that many will fall away from the truth, and the love of many will grow cold.

 

Beware of making idols of your favorite preacher, teacher or pastor.  It could come back to bite you very hard, and in turn could cause damage to those closest to you.

 

Manny Silva

 

Additional References:

 

http://apprising.org/2012/06/29/under-god-indivisible-and-joined-with-apostates/

You will be able to listen to each speaker by jumping to their own section at this video of the conference:  http://www.christianpost.com/news/evangelical-pastor-ken-hutcherson-i-am-the-gayest-man-i-know-74390/

Speakers: David Jeremiah, Fr. Jonathan Morris, Betty Robison, Ravi Zacharias, Dr. Tony Evans, Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, James Robison, Dr. Richard Land, Dr. Frank Pavone. Ken Hutcherson, Kenneth Copeland, Dr. Jim Garlow, Rabbi Aryeh Spero, Rev. Robert Sirico, John Hagee, Robert Morris, Jay Richards, Gloria Copeland, Bishop Harry Jackson, Chris Hodges, David Uth, Mark Gonzalas, Dean Nelson

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15 responses to “When Your “Favorite” Christian Leader Is In Serious Error, How Do You Respond?

  1. I went to the link on The site and could not seem to watch the video conference, but I do have a point to make here.
    I agree with you that Many of these leaders are not truly Christians. (I’m kind of really focusing on BECK here, because I am most familiar with him since I subscribe to GBTV and do really enjoy his political take on things).

    I know Beck likes to tout himself as a Christian and he runs in the same circle as many Christians and speaks at their conferences and invited them to speak at his, but let me say….speaking at someone’s conference does not necessarily mean you agree with everything they say.

    I am not sure it’s a good idea to get on a stage that you share with another leader who is Mormon and say “First off, I’d like to say that Mormonism is a cult”. I think most evangelicals agree with that statement and don’t need to be told and if they don’t agree with it by now, they probably aren’t going to and Mormon’s certainly aren’t going to change their mind based on someone saying that, and if the conference is about some topic other than Cults, what is the point really? If that’s the case, then Mormons should probably feel free to state also before they start “I disagree with a lot of biblical doctrine” but this would seem a little absurd to do at a conference that has nothing to do with biblical doctrine or religions.

    The point to these conferences (at least for BECK’S, I can’t say about others, is to bring about peace and love so that LIBERALS primarily, and worldly people can see that people of faith (even faiths that we disagree with doctrinally) can still be loving and giving and kind. it’s to stand as a front and say “liberals don’t get to decide that Christians and conservatives are not caring and loving”.

    Beck’s mission is to bring back the principals of our founding fathers-many of whom were not necessarily evangelical. I am in full agreement with bringing back the principals of our founding fathers. If our founding fathers would have been as rigid as we are becoming, our constitution would not be open to any religion practicing in this country.

    Kirk Cameron was on Beck’s show a couple of months ago talking about his movie-now I know for a fact that Cameron would not agree with Beck’s religion or spiritual ideology, but I am glad he went on the show. Beck needs Jesus just as much as anyone else and being around good Christians is good for him. I have a good feeling Cameron probably told him he didn’t agree with Mormonism. That just seems like something Cameron would state before he would come on, so we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes.

    I agree with your overall message here-that we shouldn’t compromise our faith and I agree that Schuler, Beck, etc are not truly following the message of Christ/the Bible, but I don’t know if I think that means they should never be allowed to speak at any conference that has to do with love or peace or whatever.

    I could be way off base here-like I said, I can’t seem to watch the conference. I have seen David Barton a number of times on Glenn Beck and I have never heard him once compromise his faith. He is always talking about history and the faith of our founding fathers.

    I think there is a time to draw a line between beliefs and a time to unify and when it comes to restoring this country back to the constitution and bringing Religion (all religion) back to it’s proper place in America (which is freedom of religion) then I think we should ALL be working toward that goal together.

  2. i wanted to follow up to that last comment….I totally agree with you in the big picture, so please don’t take this as argumentative….I just want our country to be restored back to the way it was and I know at least in Beck’s case/Davis Barton, that is their main goal as well.

  3. Hi Melinda,

    Thanks for your thoughtful response. Is this the link that does not work? I tried again, and it worked fine for me. I am using FireFox browser on a Macintosh.

    http://lifetoday.org/undergodindivisible-friday/

    Okay, the reason I believe it is a bad idea for them to get together comes somewhat from your answer. Yes, I agree it would not be too good for someone to start off by saying they disagree with Beck on his Mormonism, at the start of a conference, or during it as well. It would certainly make folks uncomfortable to hear that.

    But that is the problem. If I am going to have my hands tied, and am put in a situation that I am mingling and working together with false teachers or those who are believers in a false Christianity- what results from this will be the perception, to many people, that I am okay with the religious beliefs of Glen Beck, or the heretical views of Kenneth Copeland, because I am silently saying that they are okay. This kind of mixing together cannot be a good testimony, and will only cause confusion for many Christians, especially new or immature ones, who may then be led to start listening to the preaching of a Kenneth Copeland, or perhaps next time to a Benny Hinn.

    The underlying theme of this conference comes from a Christian perspective- or so they say. Although you will notice their use of “people of faith” which always bothers me from a Christian’s view. Does that also not give an impression to some that these folks coming together under that umbrella, that all faiths might be equal? That is the real danger in this.

    The bottom line is, I believe these folks getting together like this, in this circumstance, is in direct disobedience to the scripture passages I cited. If Kirk Cameron has publicly stated that Mormonism is not Christian, that would be good. But if he gave the impression to even a few that Mormonism may be okay because he DID NOT say anything in that interview, then I think that was not a good choice on Kirk’s part. I still believe he is saved, as I do believe that David Jeremiah is. But they have caused great harm to the cause of the Gospel by confusing a lot of people by NOT reproving the false teachers, and deciding not to have anything to do with them- as Scripture tells us.

  4. Thanks Melinda, I have never viewed you as argumentative (in a bad way anyway). A good “argument” is not a bad idea, in the original sense of the word. And I pray for this country the same way you are- I just don’t know if things will get better, not because I am a pessimist- but only because Revelation points to things getting worse and worse.

  5. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.22Abstainfrom all appearance of evil.23And the very God of peace sanctifyyou wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preservedblameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess 5:21-23

    But you must be careful with this freedom of yours. Do not cause a brother or sister with a weaker conscience to stumble. 10 You see, this is what can happen: Weak Christians who think it is wrong to eat this food will see you eating in the temple of an idol. You know there’s nothing wrong with it, but they will be encouraged to violate their conscience by eating food that has been dedicated to the idol. 11 So because of your superior knowledge, a weak Christian, for whom Christ died, will be destroyed. 12 And you are sinning against Christ when you sin against other Christians by encouraging them to do something they believe is wrong. 13 If what I eat is going to make another Christian sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live — for I don’t want to make another Christian stumble. 1 Corinthians 8:9-13

    Love means doing what God has commanded us, and he has commanded us to love one another, just as you heard from the beginning. 7 Many deceivers have gone out into the world. They do not believe that Jesus Christ came to earth in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Watch out, so that you do not lose the prize for which we have been working so hard. Be diligent so that you will receive your full reward. 9 For if you wander beyond the teaching of Christ, you will not have fellowship with God. But if you continue in the teaching of Christ, you will have fellowship with both the Father and the Son. 10 If someone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don’t invite him into your house or encourage him in any way. 11 Anyone who encourages him becomes a partner in his evil work. 1 John 1:6-11

  6. Manny, Jesus said in (Matt 7: 15-20) That we will know our true leaders, those that He has given us, by their fruits. God has not sent His spokesmen to compromise with the false teachers in any way. They have one purpose and that is to proclaim Jesus Christ. In Acts 6: 8-7: 60 we have an example of what a true leader is, Stephen exposed the false belies and proclaimed That Jesus was the only way to Heaven.
    It’s time we quit excusing those who are parading as Christian leaders, If their fruit is bad then they are false. Manny you stated that “We are seeing signs all around of a widening apostasy, and it seems the true Christian church will be comprised of small groups scattered around the world,” Time is running short and God is calling His chosen ones out. Let us listen!!!!
    Grady Roundtree

  7. When I was in the service we used to joke about, “There is the right way and a wrong way, and then there is the military way.” And of course we were to do it the military way regardless what we might have been taught in civilian life. The wisdom behind this was the military is a unique organization unlike any other and to survive one must adapt to the military life style. The quicker one adapted the better his chance of survival became because of team effort.

    I believe this same analogy can apply to the church. They are similar in many ways, perhaps this is why Paul used the soldier to teach Christian discipline. Just like the military has a duty and mission to perform the church has a duty and a mission to perform as well. The church is immensely different from the world as “hisdaughterhischild” pointed out. Because the church is different, the church lives by a different set of rules and must police it’s self from within the body. With this comes great responsibility and caution is to be taken serious in judging right and wrong as illustrated by the weaker brother.

    Perhaps this is why Jesus warned all in John [7:24] “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” Some advocate that we are not to judge; however, the warning here is not to rush to judgment. We first want to be active in promoting salvation believing the best where there is no certainty of proof. Judgment must be based upon the truth and must avoid prejudices and first impressions. When the motive is clear with certainty to distort the gospel or introduce another gospel within the body of Christ then judgment is the churches responsibility to expose them.

  8. OK, I did watch the first few speakers-all the way through to Glenn Beck. I reread your scriptures above (Ephesians and 2 Corinthians) and I’m still really giving this a lot of thought.

    Here is where I am a little indifferent so far…..

    It seems this conference is not a conference to lead people to Christ or sway people to one religion or the other. The scripture references you gave (To my knowledge) are about joining in the religion of others, or allowing them to influence the Christian religion, which I do not do. I can watch Beck everyday and still turn off the program and realize that he is lost unless he accepts Jesus and the Bible for what they truly are. I still appreciate his work as a person trying to restore morals and Godly principals to this country. As I can appreciate all of these speakers doing so. I see Jonathan Morris all the time on FOX and I appreciate his commentary on political religious topics even though he and I disagree fundamentally about Christianity. But I share his opinions on political topics.

    These attendees are people who are already of faith (some faith or another) who have come to get pumped up about restoring this country back to the intent of our founding fathers who were by and large-religious.

    The Title “Under God, Indivisible” is a reference to the pledge of allegiance, not the Bible obviously, so there is no doubt what this conference is about. Restoring “God” and Godly principles to this country is not about any particular religion (Baptist, Nazarene, Catholic etc). I would like to live in a country that is God-“ly” (in a moral sense) even if the people are not necessarily followers of God.

    The fact is, up until now, Christians (true Christians) have been dormant. They have been sitting on the sidelines watching prayer move out of our schools, Abortion rise and Sodomy increase. We have let the “world” take over our schools, our television shows, our political arena, and even dictate how we worship and who we can hire to preach and what insurance coverage we can offer that include abortions.

    I’m tired of it! So If I need to join hands with a Mormon or any other religious person to accomplish the goal of freedom of religion then I am happy to do it. I feel the same about abortion. I will protest at an abortion clinic with anyone that is willing to show up.

    It would be different if Christians had been doing this all along, but let’s face it, Beck kind of got this thing rolling-people of faith getting involved in the political arena and saying enough is enough! I realize there were entities like the Family Research Council and others, but Beck seemed to have motivated people much more since he had a show and also logically laid out what was really going on and came up with a plan.

    We cannot do this alone. (IMO) We need each other. Mormons are partly responsible for why California did not pass the law allowing Gay marriage in their state. (I realize the African American population also had a lot to do with it as well). Catholics are part of the reason Abortion is still a hot topic in the political arena. They keep it alive and point out the atrocities while many evangelicals say nothing in the public arena.

    I feel like we appreciate other faiths as long as they are just doing their own thing, but coming together with them to accomplish the same thing-that is seen as a no-no.

    the argument that sharing a stage with a Mormon or Catholic could cause someone to stumble is not a valid argument to me because if we really believe that, then we can’t do anything outside of a small group of people we are 100% sure are saved and who can know that? Like you pointed out, you can’t even trust that because someone who was faithful at one time, there is no guarantee. they won’t sway later.
    This was a pep rally of sorts. I know I use to be afraid to speak out in public about my political views that are religious based but Beck made me realize that we are the majority and we have a right to speak out because if we don’t, they WILL!

    We are to be in the world, but not of the world. Sharing a stage about freedom of religion and bringing God back to this country in principal is not a bad thing. I don’t view it any different than discussing religion with a co-worker who I know is not of my faith, but we share some common ground, so we are discussing the areas we agree on. I don’t worry that a fellow co-worker will hear me sharing views with that person and think that I must be ok with Catholicism or Mormonism just because I am talking about common ground with one of them.

    If this were a conference on religion, I would have a problem with this many different ideologies on stage. But this is a conference on voting your religious beliefs, and supporting moral politicians, and not letting politicians dictate to us how we worship, and getting involved in politics to bring Godly principals back to this country. I don’t see how that is “light” associating with darkness. If you work a job outside of a church and talk to people at work ,technically you are associating with darkness. We have to take that in context and sharing a stage with someone you don’t hang out with on a normal basis, just to encourage value voting is not associating with darkness. It’s not associating with light either. It’s just like doing a job.

    Sorry….this was long….I can get pretty winded. I assume I am not going to change your mind and you probably won’t change mine and I can agree to disagree on this topic. You and I share the same thought process on ecumenicism as a whole. I always enjoy your thoughtful insight even if I don’t fully agree. I still always see parts of it that I do agree with. I am very politically active in my community and work with and for politicians so this topic is near and dear to my heart and I see what’s happening as a good thing. But that’s just me. :)

    But about the end times and the world getting worse-I agree, it is going to get worse, but I would love to see America get back to the roots of William Bradford and a few dozen other people who came to America with the plan to evangelize the world and fulfill the great commission. It’s not impossible for one country, especially this one, to change the tide. And I feel like before we can do that, we have to feel like we are not alone…(because that’s what Satan wants) even if we only get that “sense” from being with others that we may not agree with doctrinally.

    As always, I love you Manny and enjoy your opinions-most of which I agree with. :)

  9. Thanks Melinda for your thoughts. Keep pondering the reasons that I have given in my post as to why I consider this an example of Christians associating with those who are of the false kind, and seemingly giving the impression that the are one with the false teachers.

    I believe Ken Silva says it well here:

    Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. (2 John 1:9-11)

    Can you see there; those teaching false doctrine are involved in wicked works. This means people who promote and help advance such as these take part in his wicked works. That’s not merely my opinion, and it also isn’t open to debate; this is what God Himself has instructed us in His Word.

    In the end, according to the Word of God, each Christian who shares the platform at this Under God Indivisible with Roman Catholic apostates like Jonathan Morris, Robert Sirico, and Jay Richards is giving them credibility in the Christian community and also taking part in their wicked works.

    This now becomes a vivid illustration of the foolishness of making your nation an idol and thinking as men think (cf. Matthew 16:23). For you see, to give the impression that the purity of the Gospel really doesn’t matter is exactly the wrong message to set before the world which desperately needs it.

    Frankly, as I see it, men like Ravi Zacharias, Tony Evans, and David Jeremiah should be ashamed of themselves.

    Blessings,

    manny

  10. Firstly, I ask, should these men share a stage with others who come along at next year’s conference? With Muslims? Buddhists? Nature worshippers? Satanists? These all might say that they have a common goal with others as well to see this country get right with God (except the Satanist perhaps), and that freedom of religion is shared by all.
    Where does one draw the line, if there is any, at such gatherings? And how do you draw the line, with your own thinking, or the measure of God’s word? That is a dilemma which I do not wish to deal with on my own.

    Here is the bottom line at such conferences with various men, some who are clearly apostates and false teachers. As a Bible believing Christian leader shares the platform with such men, what should he think or say when one or two of them- say a Mormon, or a word faith heretic such as Kenneth Copeland- says something about “my fellow Christian brothers and sisters here with me today?” What kind of predicament is he in now, as countless people here a proclamation of similar kind, and believe that all is well with these men, and that they are equally the same in the family of God, even as some will go back to their own places and resume preaching and teaching their false gospel?

    Does he immediately denounce this statement in front of all? That sure would be uncomfortable. Does he keep his mouth shut, and only voice his disagreement in private later? That does not sound good either.

    Thus he will learn that he should never have been there in the first place.

    The Bible is clear as day on this: “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 2 Corinthians 6:14-15 (NKJV)

    I recall a very good sermon by John MacArthur on separation and therefore not partnering with unbelievers which I urge to read or listen to:

    http://www.gty.org/resources/Sermons/47-45

    My friends, may your guiding light be only the word of God.

  11. You keep quoting Scripture at me that I totally agree with. I am not arguing that we are not to be yoked together with unbelievers. I am not arguing that righteousness has no business with lawlessness. I listened to MacArthur’s sermon on this topic and just like i already knew-he points out that these scriptures are about ministry, teaching and worship. This conference was none of those things. At least to my knowledge of what I listened to. I spent over an hour listening to the conference and now I have spent 45 minutes listening to MacArthur’s sermon and I am just not going to give this any more time because I have a family and a business and of course, it’s election time and I ma super busy. This leaves me little time to do my own actual Bible reading so I can’t spend all that time chasing this conversation. I am just going to disagree with PARTS of what you are saying.

    I agree with 2 John 1:9-11. But I feel you are taking these scriptures out of context because you don’t think that a Christian and a non-Christian of another religion should share a stage about anything. If they were both there against abortion you would say the same thing. If they were both there about any topic-I don’t know-raising the minimum wage, I think you’d say they had no right to share the same stage because that would be “greeting” a nonbeliever and if you take it that literally then you can go all the way to say that you cannot talk with co-workers except to share the gospel. So no speaking at lunch break unless it’s about them coming to Christ?

    I don’t endorse conferences like the one held by Rick Warren where he held a religious conference and treats all religions the same and lets speakers of all faith come to the pulpit. But I see this conference differently because no one is endorsing another’s faith and this is about values voting.

    here is where I AGREE with your basic premise though…

    1. This was held in a church. I did not realize this till now. People who are not of Christian faith should not be speaking in a church for any reason, so if this was held in a public arena, then I would not be concerned over that, but I am, considering where it was held. We should not be opening our churches even for rent to anyone who is not of the [true] Christian faith.

    2. I AM concerned like you said that it could have been open to any faith including Muslims, Buddhists, nature worshipers, etc. my concern with that would be that they may have ulterior motives for freedom of religion.

    3. I AM concerned that many or our leaders are accepting Catholics, Mormon’s and others as if they are equal to Christians in our beliefs and sharing a stage with them COULD cause someone to think that all of those religions are equal.

    4. yes, I AM concerned that the term “fellow brothers and sisters in Christ” or something similar could give the impression that we all share the same beliefs.

    I also understand 1 Corinthians 8. I agree wholeheartedly. If I had attended that conference I would have made sure everyone I knew, knew that I attended for Freedom of religion and values voting reasons and I do not share the same beliefs as many of the speakers there.

    But my problem with this issue in particular is -what is wrong with people doing a little research themselves and realizing we do not share the same beliefs as the Catholics or parents talking to their kids early on about different faiths? My mom taught me growing up that Our faith is separate than all other religions that change the gospel in any way. I teach my children that too, so when they see a Jeremiah sharing a stage with a Glenn Beck, they know the difference between their faiths. My son really enjoys the Glenn Beck program, but he knows Mormonism is false and he dismissed what Beck says when he talks about his faith. But most of my research on different faith didn’t start till the last few years, but in my heart I knew a false faith when I saw one. Something didn’t settle right because the Holy Spirit revealed to me that it was wrong.

    The whole reason our group has had to form is that churches no longer teach this kind of stuff and neither do parents so small groups like ours have to put the word out. And I do, but I am not going to go to the extreme and say Christians cannot even share common goals in life with other people that are not of the same faith.

    Conferences are held all over this country for all different reasons. I assume you won’t attend any conference that is not about religion or faith and you will only attend if people you approve of are there or you are there to report the heresy. That’s your right and I appreciate it-your reports on speakers you check out to give us the heads up. I attended a Republican Women’s conference and they opened with prayer. I did not rush the stage and ask if the woman who prayed was a true Christian. I pondered it, but No, I was happy that we still honor prayer at the opening of a conference in this country. I feel the same way about prayer before Congress or the Senate. it may not be a person I agree with in faith, but I am glad that we are still opening in prayer to remind America that God is still accepted in this country despite the atheists and others that want to convince us He’s not.

    I did want to address this that you said,

    “This now becomes a vivid illustration of the foolishness of making your nation an idol and thinking as men think (cf. Matthew 16:23).”

    I don’t think wanting to keep God in America and voting our values is making a nation our Idol. This country is blessed because of a handful of men who came here to preserve freedom of religion. They set it up as closely to Biblical principle as they could-making sure that choosing Christ was a choice and not forced upon people, yet making sure that future generations understood that God was at the root of this country. These men claimed America as a beacon of light to a lost world. They saw this country as a part of the Great Commission. Somehow along the way, we have lost our way. I know that is predicted in the Bible, but there will be some true Christians left in this world even as we near the end of days and I believe some of those people will be in America, so I am eager to keep my faith alive in this country for as long as possible.

    Don’t worry-I won’t be posting again. I know they are long and I appreciate the dialogue. You have given me food for thought. And even when I disagree with you, I still appreciate your thought process and all the hard work you put in to this site and keeping us informed.

    Thanks for the dialogue.

  12. These speakers who are sharing the stage with Glenn Beck, have they made any qualifying statements prior to, or after, this conference that make it clear they disagree with Beck with regard to his Mormonism?

    Whether or not these people who gathered together with Beck realize it, they are giving the impression that they and Beck are on the same page not only politically but spiritually. When Beck uses the “One Nation Under God” mantra for his platform and his conference, the Christian leaders who decide to gather together with him and speak are giving an impression of endorsement in more than just a political sphere. Beck himself has made statements akin to the “We’re all worshiping the same God!” syncretism found today, and while many admire his argument as it draws from conservative and moral principles, it is still a form of syncretism.

    This reminds me of the “Evangelicals and Catholics Together” collusion in 1994, in which a group of evangelicals and Catholics got together and signed a document which was intended to show joint support by both groups on certain issues. While some in the evangelical camp who signed the document maintained that it was not intended to convey unqualified support to Roman Catholicism, nevertheless it gave that impression to others, and in so doing good evangelical leaders left people with the idea (a false one) that there is no difference between the Catholic and Protestant understandings of the gospel-and this of course was the crux of the division between Rome and the Reformers.

    When you stand with another who is not of the faith on an issue that is supposed to be unrelated to the faith, that distinction on spiritual matters must be made clear. The god of Mormonism is not the God of historical Christianity. The Christ of Mormonism is a very different being than Jesus of the Bible. These are not superficial differences, and the doctrinal illiteracy among evangelicals is bearing fruit in that evangelicals are failing to see that Mormonism preaches another gospel. And these Christian leaders, who by their association are giving the impression that Glenn Beck is a brother in Christ when the church to which he ascribes allegiance preaches a different gospel, are running the risk of partaking in fellowship with known and vital error and doctrine, and that, as Charles Spurgeon once said, is participation in sin.

    Btw, Manny, I’m very much looking forward to your study on Dan Bohi. I hope to see it very soon!

  13. I would agree with your assertion regarding favouritism towards particular teachers, etc. For the very reasons you stated, I removed Zacharias from the list of teachers I’ll listen to (sadly dwindling, but those who remain biblically sound seem to be so much brighter).

    I’m losing friends because of pointing out error in certain teachers, not with the aim of disruption or division, but as warnings that we need to check out “what people are saying about the word of God with the word of God” (Chris Rosebrough)?

    Whatever is going on in America is mirrored over here in the UK. The churches are starting to be infiltrated with man-pleasing ideology, weak gospel and feel-good pep talks. Oh, that God would move amongst His people here too, and that we would be grounded in His word!

  14. Peter warns the Church in 1Peter [4:7, 11] “But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. “ I believe we are living in a time when it is more important, by some, to be popular, and they will do almost anything to be recognized including associating with well recognized individuals who by association enhance their own popularity. We are not the first to fall under the spell or false teaching regardless how persuasive or believable it is presented.

    The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Corinthian Church warned against those who passed themselves off as the enlightened ones with special wisdom, knowledge or consciousness. It has been said that in Corinth you could meet self taught sagacious men who mimicked their favorite philosopher by echoing philosophic discussions on any number of topics, portraying themselves as learned or leading authorities in their field of study. I believe we are seeing a resurrection of such men today spreading their false ideology both in the church and society. Without being judgmental I believe that some today still seek recognition at any cost! Do not be fooled by their cleaver way of twisting the truth.

    This so-called special ability was believed to be “beyond” and not available to the ordinary man, and was usually contrary to the word of God. Peter gives us our weapon of defense against such: Take it serious and be watchful in prayer. He concludes that those who minister must minister according to the ability which God supplies that God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. I question how many ever stop and ask themselves, what I am doing will it glorify God? God will not honor what is not His.

  15. Jesus told us that the world would HATE us as His followers. We are also told in script. that the evil one comes as an angel of light. We are either building GOD’s spiritual kingdom or the evil one’s earthly kingdom. We are a kingdom of priests who are to sacrifice daily to bring the gospel message to all the unsaved. That includes those following the ” father of lies, who is also called a murderer, the evil one.” Some of those who are following the ” evil one ” belong to the Mormons, Catholics etc. Yes it is a nice thing to try to save America ; a losing proposition ; but that is not the believers mission. The fruits of our salvation are good works done in the name of JESUS CHRIST, not in the name of other gods. So we must STAND FOR JESUS CHRIST first, then present our fruits to help America.

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