Saved, Sanctified, Sacramental Nazarene Pastors: Hypocrites In Their Own Words

“Your own mouth condemns you, not mine; your own lips testify against you.” Job 15:6

Everyone who is in a battle for the truth and dealing with corrupt shepherds and false pastors, will get the same treatment. It is what they do best, because they have abandoned the truth. It does not matter whether you are a “nobody”, or a pastor, or a college president. They will try to take you down and make you out to be a hater, or a fool, or un-Christ like if you don’t go along with their false doctrines. And the response to these people is to just keep exposing the “unfruitful works of darkness…and reprove them. Don’t back down from them. Jesus did not back down. Paul did not back down. Neither should we.”

(The comments that I am pointing out today by certain pastors are nothing new to me. They have been directed at me and others for years, and we are used to it. If I wrote an article for every time such comments surfaced in public, it would be pointless and distracting from my ministry to do so. Once in a while, however, I believe it is necessary to call out those in responsible positions (pastors especially) who speak in ways that are outside of what God expects from pastors).

If a pastor were to attack someone’s theology and doctrine, I would have very little problem in dealing with a fair argument and disagreement. But when they attack the person rather than the positions of that person, then they need to be exposed for their behavior. If you are a pastor, you especially need to take ownership for your public pronouncements. If any of these pastors are embarrassed from what I show you today, they have no one to blame but themselves. Matthew 18 does not apply in such situations, since they have already pronounced their judgments publicly.

Sacramental Nazarenes is a liberal-leaning Nazarene FaceBook group. I believe there is something very wrong with some of the pastors in this group. These are the kind of pastors that are unlike those I have known, such as my father and father-in-law. In all my life, I never heard those two men speak in such ways as these pastors do. I believe that these folks need the Holy Spirit to touch them at the core of their soul. I feel sorry for them, especially since they seem to believe they can hurt me by throwing insults my way. These people are living sad lives when they focus so much on me, because it is all so much more than about me.  It is about false doctrines in the church and the wolves that have crept into the church! Yet, they continue with this bizarre and obsessive focus on me. Perhaps it is a way of assuaging their guilt in some way.

Sacramental Nazarene Admins And Their View of Homosexuality

Before we go on to what they wrote, look at part of Sacramental Nazarene’s basic statement:

“What this group is NOT…a place to: debate divisive topics like politics or homosexuality; criticize, label, judge, rant or condescend(Group admins reserve the right to delete posts they deem inappropriate.)”

Isn’t it odd that a sin such as homosexuality would even need to be seriously debated? But on the other hand, why would debating about any kind of sinful sexual behavior be considered divisive? Do they also consider other sexual sins such as adultery, or lust, or pornography, or fornication, or incest, as also being divisive topics and unworthy of “debate?”
Is homosexuality a special thing that has special meaning to them? Do some of these pastors even believe homosexuality is a sin? How many of these pastors would clearly and without ambiguity declare that homosexuality is a sin? Think about how these folks might view homosexuality in the light of this position statement. I do not believe it should be taken lightly. I believe it is part of their makeup, part of their leanings towards acceptance and “affirmation.” This is very dangerous in my opinion, and any statement such as “we are in alignment with the ‘polity’ and manual of the Church of the Nazarene” should never be taken as the final answer.

Oh the irony and hypocrisy of it all, as apparently the rants, the judging, the condescension directed at me is okay with the admins of this group.

Sacramental Nazarene Pastors And Their Behavior

The discussion was started by an ordained Nazarene pastor, Greg Farra. He is a member of NazNet, a Nazarene group that is dominated by emergent church and liberal types who promote non-Christian ideology. Here is what he said, after apparently going through my blog with a fine-tooth comb searching for an “indicting” statement, and then predictably putting his own spin to it (“refused to admit it publicly”).

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Note the “seriousness” of ordained pastor Greg Farra, who I am sure would have no problem with prayer labyrinths or praying the rosary. He, like most of these Sacramental Nazarenes, is highly interested in Roman Catholic ways, with formal rituals and procedures, with wearing collars that imitate Catholic priests. He and his friends seem far less concerned with true Christianity, biblical doctrine, and holiness. He is more concerned with ecumenicalism and compromise with the world. My opposition to ecumenicalism is only one of the reasons that he tries to use me as a punching bag. What a waste of his time.

But more seriously, Greg Farra believes in the Roman Catholic heresy of transubstantiation- the belief that the bread and wine of communion actually does become the real body and blood of Christ. This is heresy being introduced by a Nazarene pastor! And they call me crazy and not a true Nazarene?   I wonder what the General Superintendents think of this? What does his District Superintendent think of this?

farra endorses transsubstantiation

Bob Hunter

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Bob Hunter is interesting. He has gone after me for years and said many nasty things about me, mostly on NazNet discussions until I was cast out for doing far less than most of these guys say. I don’t know what his status is today, but I believe in the past he was an ordained Nazarene pastor. I could be wrong. Nevertheless, please pray for Bob.

Greg Farra’s Way Of Handlng All Matters

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Greg’s seemingly cavaliar attitude towards the principle of “defending the faith” speaks loudly when he talks about the ELCA. After his previous derogatory words, pastor Greg says that he wants to “approach all matters in love first and foremost.”   But then…

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It did not take long for Greg Farra to forget his determination to “approach all matters in love first and foremost.”   That is called hypocrisy. This is what they always do. They speak from one side of the mouth and do something different soon after. “Clouds without water… fruitless trees… wild waves of the sea.”

David Troxler

David Troxler is a pastor in the New England District. I assume David claims to be a saved, sanctified Nazarene. Here then are the judgmental words of a saved, sanctified Nazarene as he talks about me:

“so against joy”, “bitter spirit of judgmentalism”, “personal crusade against all things of the Spirit”, “he is to be pitied for his condition”.

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Note to David: My wife, my pastor, my few close Christian friends who know me pretty well, would certainly have taken me aside and lovingly spoken to me in the hopes of helping me. But you obviously think otherwise. You judge me like that, rather than refuting the actual specific claims that I always make. You cannot do that because you have no biblical argument, so you resort to ugly, personal attacks. Tell me, if a Christian from your church were to express their concerns like I do, would you treat them the same way? I will pray for you too.

Bob Hunter’s Psychoanalysis

bob hunter analysis

And then Bob Hunter chimes in with the usual phoney psychological analysis he has been doing for years on me. I wonder if he can be charged with practicing without a license?  Several years ago, Bob expressed the desire to come to my house with his dog so his dog could do something on my front lawn. This was also said publicly, although it was one of the milder things he has said about me.

Gary Creely Thinks I Want To Make Nazarenes Into Something Else

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Note to Gary: A diversionary tactic by Rev. Gary Creely, used by many of his friends. I know exactly what it is that the Church of the Nazarene has traditionally believed, until folks like you came along. And no Gary, I am not, nor ever have tried to change any denomination to something else. What I have tried to do for over eight years is to simply warn as many Nazarenes as possible about pastors like you, who are dedicated to changing the Nazarene denomination into more of a resemblance of Roman Catholicism, than the holiness denomination it claims it is. Bad, bad analysis Gary, especially since you have been reading my blog for so many years. You ought to know by now what purpose God has called me for, and it is to expose the false teachings and you and your friends have been promoting for years.

David Troxler Insults My Father:

Sacramental8 Troxker insult

So David Troxler, as others have done lately, manages to insult the late Rev. Ilidio Silva. David was not satisfied to stop with insulting me.

David, if you are reading this, you obviously have no idea who my father was. If you did, you would know that he was the epitome of what it means to be a Nazarene, and he would have no trouble with what I am doing. Did you know that he was a Roman Catholic as a young man when he was saved from that evil religion; the same religion that so many, including you David, are making excuses for and holding hands with? He would never have accepted this compromise that you and so many New Englanders are involved with now. He was a true Nazarene, saved and sanctified, who would pray for hours early in the mornings for folks like you who have deviated from the true path of holiness teaching. Your words illustrate the pettiness so many of you show towards anyone who is against your liberal emergent church agenda. David, you need to repent, and ask God to clean your heart, and to put a right spirit within yo

Cam Pence Makes The Same Argument As Greg Farra

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Cam Pence is also an ordained Nazarene pastor, and a longtime NazNetter. He also, in spite of being familiar with my writings, is delusioned by some idea that I want to turn the Nazarene church into fundamental Baptists- although I have no problem with Baptists. But he totally does not yet understand what I am doing, and why. Either that, or he is simply being disingenuous and does not want to admit what the battle is really all about in the Nazarene denomination.

One Reasonable Voice

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I may be getting this last pastor in trouble, since I am commending him. But I must be fair about all this.

So there is Rich Schmidt. He is the only one from the “opposition” who spoke with a reasoned voice in all this. I don’t believe that in all my years at NazNet that he ever personally insulted me. I do believe he understands what the battle really is, and even though he disagrees with me on most of the issues, he did not step into the gutter as most of these pastors did. I respect that very much, and I believe Rich saw some of the comments for what they were, and tried to encourage some semblance of civility and fairness into their conversation. He did not speak out to agree with my views, but only to express a saner viewpoint that was a counterbalance to these hypocritical pastors and their very personal attacks.

The Conclusion: IT’S NOT ABOUT ME!!

The behavior of these hypocritical pastors illustrates that it is far from being about me. Not at all. We have seen in recent months the vicious attacks by Nazarene pastors and even some Nazarene leaders on Dr. Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University. Dr. Piper is a voice of reason, a man of integrity, a truth teller. He is not one who seeks to “please men.” As Paul eloquently says in Galatians 1:10, so too Dr. Piper “would not be a servant of Christ if he tried to please men.” Yet, we have seen Love Wins:LGBT and their leadership blatantly telling lies about him, and not being held accountable for those lies.

We have seen Rev. Jeff Allen being excoriated by them, also being accused of telling lies. One pastor even recommended bringing charges against him, for telling the truth! We saw eight years ago how Pastor Joe Staniforth was driven out of the denomination, for speaking out against the heresies of the emergent church. We have heard of Jason Bjerke, being told by the New England District bigshots that he would not likely be ordained because he believed in the inerrancy of scripture. It is evident to me that they want the truth tellers and biblical pastors out of the church, and the heretics to be welcomed!

Folks, make no mistake, we are in a battle with evil within the church. Satan is using many pastors now to promote not only ecumenicalism, and contemplative spirituality, but now the LGBT homosexuality agenda. In fact, you really need to ask your own pastors to give you straight answers about their views on homosexuality. Their answer may not end up clarifying anything for you. Satan is using these people to try to shut up folks like me, but also to shut up pastors of integrity and honesty who do not wish to see the Church of the Nazarene go the way of an apostate denomination. Do NOT let them silence you!

Dr. Walter Martin was right a few years ago, when he said:

“the danger to the church, from within, is the person who wears the cloth of Christ… and who stands behind the sacred desk, and who is unfaithful to the word of God. That is the ultimate danger to the church. The corrupt and apostate shepherds who infest our theological seminaries and our colleges, and fill our pulpits… and who know not God, do not believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and will stand in the way of anybody that wants to preach it!   The cancer is within, and it eats away, and we don’t recognize it.  Or when we do recognize it, we don’t do anything about it. We are so careful to preserve the wolves in the church, and so slow to defend the faith of the church!”

Advice To Love Wins LGBT And Andy McGee: Remember The Ninth Commandment

“Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” James 3:1

There is a sense of greater responsibility and accountability when a pastor accuses someone of lying, especially in public.  A pastor is not just any ordinary person, according to Scripture.  He is expected to be a role model, and a good example to others of Christ-like behavior.  Care must be taken that an accusation is supported with facts, otherwise the harm to the accused can have damaging and unfair repercussions.  Many of you reading this have experienced such damaging repercussions. This is about accountability of a public figure for his public statements.  This is about discernment.  This is about honesty. This is about calling out professing Christians in order to seek correction of their errors; nothing more.  I pray that this account will be used by the Holy Spirit to touch Andy McGee’s conscience and show him the truth.

False Accusations

On July 15, Andy McGee, the leader of the Love Wins:LGBT posted on his FaceBook page a statement that accused three people of posting lies about his ministry.  He called out Dr. Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, for posting screenshots that he says were “wildly taken out of context.”   He then brought a Nazarene pastor into the mix, Jeff Allen, who wrote a critique using the same screenshots of Andy’s statements, and Andy stated that the pastor does not like Andy or his ministry. He then pointed out that I also posted the same information on my blog (which I did).  And then came the accusation (the full text at end of article):

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And so the leader of Love Wins:LGBT wants to refute the “lies”.  On Tuesday, July 25, I posted a question to Andy in that same thread.  I asked Andy when he may be writing his rebuttal to the “lies” that have been written about him.  Soon after, I was blocked by Andy, and he deleted my question. In the same post, he says that he has reached out to “each of these men”; but after asking him a pretty reasonable question, he blocked me.

Andy recently unblocked me so that he could tag me with a new post that he published. (I am however prevented from responding to anything he says). He wrote that he is praying for the three men he has accused of lying.  However, he has yet to either support his claim, or apologize for his accusation.  Here is part of what he wrote in this new post:

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What Will Andy Do?

It seems to me that the leader of Love Wins:LGBT is in a difficult situation.  If he never writes his rebuttal, he fails to show how any of these three men are liars, yet his accusation still remains for all to see on his page.  If he does write a rebuttal, how will he do it, since he would be rebutting his own words?  I don’t believe that Andy McGee, an ordained pastor in the Church of the Nazarene, ever intends to rebut any “lies.”  He cannot, because his very words are what were posted!  See the post Sounding The Alarm to read what he himself has said about various matters that are in question.  And keep in mind, this group is getting the support of their district as well as from the leaders of the denomination.

Retiring General Superintendent JK Warrick suggested at a district assembly recently that Andy should probably seek some kind of approval before posting anything on his website.  Is Andy that reckless that he needs prior approval before making statements about his ministry?   I actually agree with that assessment. It was also disappointing that Dr. Warrick called out Dr. piper for stating his concerns about the ministry of Love Wins:LGBT, a concern shared by many Nazarenes and other Christians.  I would like to know what any of the current active General Superintendents feel about the appropriateness of the Love Wins_LGBT agenda, including their inappropriate exhibit at General Assembly.

It is also very disappointing that Andy McGee and other ordained pastors in the Church of the Nazarene have gone after Dr. Piper and Rev. Jeff Allen for simply posting the very words of Andy McGee and stating their opinions as to the appropriateness and purpose of that ministry.  There are few people in such leadership positions as Dr. Piper that I have a great respect for.  Hardly anyone wants to tackle such difficult issues of our time anymore, yet Dr. Piper is willing to do that, and he does it with sound biblical reasoning.  Yet we see on his page countless examples of crude, insulting personal attacks by “pastors” who cannot reason using God’s word.

They then attack Rev. Jeff Allen, a courageous pastor, for also posting the very words of Andy McGee and giving his biblical opinion.  If we had more principled pastors throughout the denomination who were not afraid to speak the truth, perhaps the Church of the Nazarene would be in much better shape.  Sadly, way too many pastors are silent about these issues. 

Yet those same pastors who criticize us fail to justify Andy’s support of same-sex marriage activists, or his applause of National Coming Out Day, or his approval of the Gay Christian Network conference, or his approval of two female homosexual activists who are married.  Why is that?  I believe they are angry that “the light has exposed the darkness”, and the true agenda of Love Wins:LGBT is coming out (no pun intended). 

Why Can’t “Yes” Be Yes, and “No” Be No, For Andy And His Followers?

On the same thread that Andy wrote his promise to “rebut the lies”, we see a question asked of Andy:

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Andy’s reply was quite predictable:

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The word of the year seems to be: polity.  “Yes, we are in line with the polity of…and blah blah blah” is now the standard, template response to every pointed and direct question asked of Love Wins:LGBT.  It’s defenders use the same language in their support of Love Wins.  You cannot get them to answer a question with clarity. When you read the thread, it is almost as if the question was horrible and unreasonable, and yet, it simply is asking for clarity!  But there will be no clarity for a while, because when it finally comes, then the unmasking will happen, and even the gullible Nazarene leaders will have to admit: the Love Wins:LGBT  ministry is a deceptive fraud.

If you read the thread, you will see some of Andy’s supporters, including Rev. Antonie Holleman, chief writer of the five Holland papers on homosexuality that will soon be translated and sent out for you to come to your own conclusions about the Holland leadership and their homosexuality agenda.  Holleman and other supporters vigorously defend Love Wins_LGBT, even while others are excoriating anyone who dares to question this organization’s intentions.  Instead, the modus operandi is always the same: false accusations and demonization of truth tellers, and certainly this latest one takes the cake!  To accuse someone of lies, when that person simply repeated the very words spoken by the accuser? Surely that takes lots of chutpza!

Did God’s Word Tell A Lie Also?

 And then we see another accusation by Love Wins:LGBT, but this time they went after God’s word itself.  One of the resolutions at General Assembly, CA-724 was passed which simply stated that all people are born male or female.  This is pretty obvious, is a reflection of the biblical account, and I shardly needed to be stated in the Nazarene Manual!  Love Wins:LGBT’s position, however, is that God was wrong about this, and that the Bible did not get it right.  There is apparently a third gender called intersex, which refutes what the Bible says. For some bizarre reason, the resolution was later rescinded and slated for “further study” by the General Superintendents.  (We know what happened in 2013 with the Human Sexuality statement, don’t we, when it was tabled for further study).  This is yet another capitulation to the homosexuality agenda.

Here is how Love Wins:LGBT stated their objections:

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So the apparent position of Love Wins:LGBT is that any claim that God created only male and female and nothing else, is a “plainly seen, easily identified, and blatant lie.”  These are the very words of the leadership team of this organization.  And yet, they are allowed to promulgate this nonsense and much more, and now more recently at their district assembly in Kansas City, with the blessings of the district leadership.  What does this say about discernment and leaders making right decisions?  And this leads me to a final note about all this.

What This Is Really All About

This ultimately is not about Andy McGee, or Love Wins:LGBT.  This is about a holiness denomination that has been taking the wrong turn multiple times over the last several decades, and now has ended up going further down a dark alley. And yet, this ministry is setting a dangerous precedent, and I believe it is surely becoming a powerful influence within the Church of the Nazarene. I can almost see four years from now: Andy’s organization will not be the only one at General Assembly with the rainbow colors of the homosexual affirmation movement.  Oh no, my friends.  This is just the beginning… of the end.

So where is the leadership, and what are they saying about all this?  Hey, I don’t know.  Let me know when you find them, they don’t speak to me anymore.  One thing is for sure: they are in some ways responsible for allowing the enabling of this group and letting them take hold of much of the discussion about the Church of the Nazarene and its future.  The topic of homosexuality should not be the central topic of conversation in the church, but apparently it is in good running to be just that.

This is What You Ought To Do, Andy

Andy, if you are reading this, you have publicly charged three men of posting lies about you; a very serious charge indeed.  So I await your rebuttal of the “lies.”  I also would like to understand how anyone took your own statements “wildly out of context.”  This is what you promised to do.  You need to at least keep your word.

 Otherwise, you need to repent for your own sake, and apologize to those you have maligned with your public words.  I do not hate you.  I do not even dislike you.  Believe it or not, I care about you, Andy. This is not a personal thing; it is a matter of accountability.  I urge you to repent of what you are doing, stop hiding your agenda behind pre-programmed answers, and be completely honest with the people.

Manny Silva

“Women Of Joy” And Other Christian Conferences: Perception Is Not Necessarily Reality

The Perception: A Good “Christian” Conference

For $120 per person, this is what you get:

You go to the website, and see beautiful testimonials, strong endorsements, and well known popular speakers in the evangelical community.

You read the following statement, which is part of their theme:

“A women’s conference that not only uses the word of God, but is founded in scripture.”

Or… is it founded in scripture? Many women may be planning to go to this conference, and much of it sounds and looks really good. It’s called “women of joy” (who does not like joy?), and it claims to be solid, and it has well known speakers. But what sounds and looks good, is not necessarily the reality. In this time of ever growing and great deception, it is always advisable to “test the spirits” as Scripture commands. So… let’s test the spirits, and see if the speakers at these conferences are sound in doctrine, or not. If they are not, will you still go and listen to them?

The Reality: Unbiblical Theology

  1. One speaker, Margaret Feinberg, has written a book, in which she makes claims of special divine revelation. She says that a shepherd, a beekeeper, and a winemaker whom she interviewed about their work, “illuminated the Bible in a whole new light”.

Quote: I traveled to Oregon and spent time with a shepherdess to learn more about sheep and leadership.  Southern Colorado to spend time with a beekeeper and explore the world of hives and honey.  Nebraska to visit a farm and learn about harvesting, and California to learn about viticulture and fruitfulness from a grape-grower.

Along the way, I asked how each person interpreted passages of Scripture in light of their work.  Their answers illuminated the Bible in a whole new light and resulted in the book …

This begs the question: are we truly able to get enlightenment about the word of God in a whole new light from an outside source? Or is it not the fact that Scripture stands alone, on its own, without the need for any outside testimony to reveal God to us? Margaret Feinberg will be at the Lowell, MA, Women of Joy conference.

  1. Another speaker, Christine Caine, adheres to and teaches Word of Faith (prosperity gospel), a heretical belief system. She has held leadership positions at, and is closely affiliated with Hillsong, an organization which has deviated very far from sound Scriptural doctrine. She has also regularly partnered with false teachers, including T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen, Bethel conferences, Robert Morris, Rick Warren, Steven Furtick, and Joyce Meyer. She will be speaking at the Lowell, MA conference.1

  2. Then there is Ann Voskamp, one of the most popular women speakers in the evangelical world today. In his review of her book One Thousand Gifts, Bob Dewaay describes her writings as “romantic panentheism.” Quoting pastor Dewaay:

Voskamp would likely recoil from the notion that she is promoting pagan nature religion. But she puts Christians on the same footing as the pagans by taking them on a journey to find God in nature and art. She thereby promotes mysticism. Her concepts about God that are distinctively Christian are borrowed from special revelation (the Bible). But she never makes a distinction between general revelation and special revelation, and by integrating the two so seamlessly, she elevates nature to the status of saving revelation. Since God is supposedly in everything, then God can be found in everything. And that is panentheism.”

Voskamp also incorporates Romanticism in her concepts of God.

“Voskamp’s romanticism is enhanced by her skill at describing things in a most sensual manner. The sensual terminology is designed to create a mood, a feeling, a sense of romantic mystery that longs for discovery and fulfillment. Those like me who relish clear description of theological concepts meant to be understood and discerned, will be horribly frustrated by the book.” 

“This sensuality finds its apex in the last chapter of the book which begins with this sentence: “I fly to Paris and discover how to make love to God” (Voskamp: 201).”

In this article by Sola Sisters, you see more detail of how Voskamp relates to God in an erotic manner that is clearly inappropriate and unbiblical in its references.

Her book is also filled with New Age ideas, and she quotes mystic and false teacher Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, “Nothing here below is profane for those who know how to see.” Dewaay says that “The idea that everything is holy and nothing profane is popular, but unbiblical, and comports with the idea of panentheism. The Bible tells us to separate the holy from the profane: “Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean” (Ezekiel 44:23).

Another speaker on the team is Lysa TerKeurst. Her false teaching is documented here by Michelle Lesley:

https://michellelesleybooks.com/2015/07/31/leaving-lysa-why-you-shouldnt-be-following-lysa-terkeurst-or-proverbs-31-ministries/

There are others who are very flawed in their theology, flawed to the point of false teaching. Others may be more sound in their doctrine, but are they not aware of these women? Kirk Cameron is part of this organization, and is a speaker at some of the conferences. Why does he not have the discernment to stay away from false teachers such as these? Are we to not have anything to do with those who preach another gospel?

We need to do our homework before committing to ANY concert, any conference or seminar, no matter how good it looks on the surface. If you don’t know anything about who you are going to hear, why would you go? In such a time as we are in, now is the time to be even more discerning, and find out who it is who is going to teach you something! It may not be from God.

And there is no excuse, such as the idea of “spitting out the bones and keep the meat” as some false teachers like Joyce Meyer will tell you. Nonsense! We are clearly taught in Scripture about the wolves in sheep’s clothing; to beware of them; to expose them; to call them out; but certainly to not support them in any way. Yes, these women, I am sure, will have some biblically sound things to teach you. But they will be mixing their dangerous theology with it, and they will be particularly dangerous to those vulnerable new Christians who may very well go because you, the mature Christian, did not use sound judgment.

Be a Berean, my Christian sister. If they were discerning when they heard Paul preach, what then with the “teachers” of today?

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” Acts 17:11

 

 

 

 

Links For Further Reference:

 

Margaret Feinberg:

http://bereanresearch.org/margaret-feinbergs-organic-god/

 

 

1Christine Caine:

https://michellelesleybooks.com/2016/03/04/chhave-no-regard-for-the-offerings-of-caine/

 

 

Ann Voskamp:
http://www.solasisters.com/2012/04/commentary-on-ann-voskamps-one-thousand.html

 

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue120.htm

 

 

Lisa Harper

 

https://michellelesleybooks.com/popular-false-teachers/

 

Lisa Teurkust

 

https://michellelesleybooks.com/2015/07/31/leaving-lysa-why-you-shouldnt-be-following-lysa-terkeurst-or-proverbs-31-ministries/

What’s Wrong With Soulfest?

Would you attend a church service if:

The pastor advocates same sex marriage.

The pastor is a regular speaker at Roman Catholic events.

A hard core/heavy metal non-Christian band played during the service?

The pastor promotes Roman Catholic mystical practices.

The pastor believes that … “I don’t particularly care about Scriptures stance on what is ‘wrong.’ I care more about how it says we should treat people”

The pastor is on the board of directors of a Roman Catholic church organization.

The pastor believes in unity between evangelicals and the Roman Catholic Church, which teaches a false religion.

If your answer to these questions is NO, substitute the word pastor with “Christian music artist.” Would you go to a Christian concert that has music artists and speakers who believe and promote the above things I mentioned? It would seem that any Christian who understands Scripture and its admonishments to stay away from those who promote a different gospel, the answer should still be NO to the question.

Ecumenicalism is a big movement in the world today. For the purposes of this article, ecumenicalism is defined as “a movement seeking unity among groups that profess to be Christian.” It seems everybody wants unity today. Unity amongst Christians is a good goal, yet when a move towards unity contradicts Scripture’s teaching, that is when we have trouble. So let’s turn to Scripture briefly. Scripture is clear on the issue of who we should fellowship with. For example, we have a clear directive in Ephesians.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph. 5:11

Over and over in various epistles, the same kind of instruction is given to us.

God’s word says that we are not to fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Reprove them! There is no biblical argument for promoting ecumenicalism; for getting cozy with those who teach and promote false doctrines, or to fellowship with self-professing Christians who are part of a false religion.

If a Bible-believing Christian would be opposed to the above situations in a church setting, then what is the difference if it is Christian artists performing at Christian concerts?

“Worship is no longer worship when it reflects the culture around us more than Christ within us.” A.W. Tozer

What Is Wrong With SoulFest?

Soulfest is a yearly Christian concert held in New Hampshire in the Summer. If you agree that the examples above as far as attending a church are reasons to stay away, what is the difference if the artists and speakers at the “Christian” concert are promoting same-sex marriage, holding hands with Roman Catholicism, and promoting false doctrine? There is no difference, and in fact, everything mentioned above are actual positions held by various artists and speakers that will perform at Soulfest.

I cannot emphasize the spiritual danger that young people and adults are in when they attend these concerts. There is a great danger especially to those who are either very new Christians, or are not saved at all. The influences of these popular artists are very strong, and can lead a young person to accept things that are not true and that are unbiblical. There is often a resulting emotional high that comes during many of these performances, and emotion can drive many to an experience that is false and does not last. Those who are reading should consider carefully what kind of “Christian” concerts they attend. Most often, it is not as Christian as you think it is. Be wise, and use discernment.

Biblical Christianity and Roman Catholicism are not the same “religion.” How one is saved, the authority of Scripture, the work of Christ on the Cross, and so much more, is totally opposite each other. There are so many differences that are irreconcilable, which make true fellowship impossible.

Why would a Bible-believer want to fellowship with and support those who promote a false religion? Why associate with and give support to those who promote immoral behavior? Why would you expose your youth to such an environment, where they are susceptible to stumbling? Why go to a concert with so many artists who ground their music on worldly ideas? Think twice on this, my Christian friend, before you go to Soulfest. The summary below of just a few of the major artists performing reveals a level of apostasy and deception that should be very disturbing to Christians.

SUMMARY OF SOME OF THE ARTISTS AND SPEAKERS

TobyMac
performed for the Roman Catholic Youth Rally in 2011, which featured Pope Benedict XVI and a Catholic mass during which a piece of bread allegedly became Jesus.*

Jars Of Clay Lead Singer Dan Haseltine Supports “Gay Marriage”
This group is one of the most popular Contemporary Christian groups around. Here is what their lead singer said about same-sex marriage:

“Not meaning to stir things up BUT… is there a non-speculative or non ‘slippery slope’ reason why gays shouldn’t marry? I don’t hear one. … I’m trying to make sense of the conservative argument. But it doesn’t hold up to basic scrutiny. Feels akin to women’s suffrage. I just don’t see a negative effect to allowing gay marriage. No societal breakdown, no war on traditional marriage. … I don’t think scripture ‘clearly’ states much of anything regarding morality. … I don’t particularly care about Scriptures stance on what is ‘wrong.’ I care more about how it says we should treat people” (“Dan Haseltine,” MetroWeekly.com, April 22, 2014).

Crowder
On the blog Christians United Against Apostasy, Dave Mosher documents how Crowder teaches Lectio Divina to young teens. David Crowder is very ecumenical and Roman Catholic-friendly. Crowder authored the book Praise Habit: Finding God in Sunsets and Sushi, where he encourages the practice of lectio divina and references and quotes contemplative/emerging figure Walter Brueggemann a number of times. Lectio Divina is one of the many forms of contemplative mysticism which has been greatly popularized by the emergent church movement and Roman Catholicism.

Matthew West
Mathew West is another ecumenicalist and was a participant in the highly ecumenical event, Together 2016, which included the pope and other false teachers and ecumenicalists.

Matt Maher
Matt Maher prays to Mary and believes that she aids men in salvation.

Maher’s wife is Methodist, but they are raising their son “in the Catholic Church,” while also taking him to Methodist services “so he can experience both traditions” (Religion News Service, May 17, 2013).

Maher ministers at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Parish in Tempe, which is devoted to Mary as the Queen of Heaven. The sign at the front of the church says, “Mary, Mother of Life, pray for us.”

Maher is on the board of directors for the Catholic youth organization Life Teen.

Maher performed at the 2013 Catholic World Youth Day in front of the pope, a great venerator of Mary as the Queen of Heaven. Maher also led worship for Pope Benedict XVI’s visit to the Rally for Youth in April 2008.

Maher says that touring with people like Michael W. Smith is producing ecumenical unity because people come to the concerts and find themselves standing beside a priest or nun, and they learn that “we’re all in this family together.”*

Project 86: Hard Core/heavy metal secular music at a Christian concert?
Project 86 is a hardcore rock and heavy metal band. On their website, you will not find a single reference to God or Jesus Christ. There is no mention of Jesus Christ in any of their songs or their albums. Why would such a group perform at a Christian concert?

How can you tell the lost about Jesus without a mention of His name? How can you reach people if you don’t preach the word? We are told to preach the word.
Romans 10:14  “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher”

 

Yet, here is lead singer Andrew Schwad:

“I think right now with Project, we’re going a lot more of a secular route. We’re not doing anything differently – we just think were going to be doing more secular shows. There’s a big debate about preaching at secular shows…we’ve always been subtle but forceful at the same time…for us to go out there and play with bands. We’re not going to go in there and say ‘hey were the Christian band’ …were going to carry ourselves like a normal band. Hopefully people will like our music and investigate into the band…and they will learn our beliefs. If you don’t do it that way, I just think you should only play Christian shows…because a lot of the times, club owners won’t even let you in. It’s very ineffective to just preach from stage.” 

Here is a sample of their music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKGtfOrtJ1s

And here are some of their t-shirt designs. Does looking at these things make you feel like reaching out to Jesus and giving praise to God?

86 tshirts

“Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good.” 3 John 11

Catholic Mass at Soulfest
There are daily Catholic masses scheduled at Soulfest. Would you attend a Catholic mass at a local Roman Catholic Church?

References:

* https://www.wayoflife.org/database/ccm_and_rome.html

http://thesoulfest.com/artists/

LGBT, What It Really Stands For

(John Henderson)

(Preach the saving gospel to them. Stop lying to them! Stop deceiving them!)

Why don’t we just cut to the chase? Look past all of double-talk and safe words and phrases that are filled with dishonest implications.

LGBT; that “community” (a misnomer itself) that is so persecuted by mean-spirited evangelicals; that poor, misunderstood, super-sensitive group of “normal” people who are so mistreated just because God made them that way and they just cannot help it; that group of innocent folks that God welcomes just as they are with not expectations of ever being anything else but LGBT. Those are the ones!

When you break it down to its own internal evidence, it is not a bit pretty.

“L” – Lesbian: Simply defined, a “lesbian” is “a female homosexual or woman who is primarily attracted SEXUALLY to other women” [“homosexual” defines itself with the emphasis on “sexual”].
“G” – Gay: A borrowed term emitting from overt behaviors that simulate happiness in men behaving in effeminate manners. The delusion is that they are gay or joyful. A “gay” male is a male homosexual who is primarily attracted SEXUALLY to other males.
“B” – Bi-sexual: Male or female who is SEXUALLY attracted to both genders.
“T” – Transgender: Males or females who have a disingenuous gender identity or gender expression that differs from their biological gender that happens to be irreversibly locked into their DNA. This is often expressed through symptoms of Transvestic DISORDER that include, for over a period of at least 6 months, a person who has had recurrent and INTENSE SEXUAL AROUSAL from fantasies, SEXUAL urges or behaviors from cross-dressing (most often when a heterosexual male has fantasies about and/or acts out dressing up in woman’s clothing). The fantasies, SEXUAL urges and behaviors can cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning (source: behavioralconnections.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=599).
Do you see a thread here? That thread is completely SEXUAL in character and always leads to such behaviors where possible, permitted, and/or encouraged. Specifically, it always involves intense sexual arousal in some form or pattern.
Are not many Nazarene leaders telling us that sexual arousal in this context is not a sin, even officially in the denomination’s Manual? They call it “orientation” but that is just a code word for lust that exists in an especially intense and sinfully focused direction. Consider Jesus’s stern condemnation concerning so much as looking at someone of the opposite gender with lust as being the same as the actual behavior and compare that to the argument in favor of it. Nothing is changed when the same lust is directed at one’s own gender, except there is a specific condemnation in the Scriptures against homosexuality (without qualifications or exceptions) that is ignored or “explained” away. That Bible-defying argument is swallowed up by biblical truth.
Whenever someone uses that acrostic in support of the homosexual agenda, they are in effect showing approval of distorted intense sexual arousals that are of themselves an abomination before God.
Not only is this condition a flagrant sin, it is also related to a medical and psychological pathology distinctive to itself.
One study found that “LGBT clients enter treatment with more severe substance abuse problems, greater psychopathology, and greater medical service utilization when compared with heterosexual clients. When the analyses were stratified based on sex, different patterns of substance use and associated psychosocial characteristics emerged for the LGBT clients” (<http://www.journalofsubstanceabusetreatment.com/…/…/abstract).
We need to stop kidding ourselves and approach LGBT as the pathological problem it is. Do they need help? Most definitely, but they cannot receive the help they need if we insist on looking the other way and pretending something else. They are drowning in serious trouble in major aspects of their lives and insensitive predators are throwing them a floating device with no rope attached. But, all sin across the board is just as bad, no matter how it expresses itself. LGBT is just one of the ways. Jesus saves from sin!
Preach the saving gospel to them, not some watered-down counterfeit that only helps drag their poor souls into hell. Stop lying to them! Stop deceiving them! Show them the Jesus who can completely transform and change their lives for much better than the filth they wallow in. Give them real hope, not some false comfort that encourages them in what they are doing to themselves.
Jesus died that they, too, might be saved—just like He died for all people. There are no allowances for sin but there is always regeneration available. That old saying applies here: “Jesus saves from the guttermost to the uttermost!” This is the way that godly, Christ-centered, scriptural love wins these lost souls.

Sounding The Alarm On Andy McGee And Love Wins:LGBT

The following facts, using the actual communications made by a pastor in the Church of the Nazarene who has an LGBT ministry, ought to bring up great concern from any Bible-believing Christian:

  1. Why is such a ministry active in the Church of the Nazarene that uses symbols and colors associated with the secular gay agenda?
  2. On what merits was this ministry allowed to have a booth at the General Assembly?
  3. Why have the leaders of the denomination not seen this ministry for what it is- a ministry that cannot even give straight answers to questions?
  4. Why have the leadership and so many churches and pastors bowed the knees to the agenda of the LGBT/homosexuality movement?
  5. Will there be more Love Wins-type of churches forming soon, for the purpose of promoting the false, empty gospel that Love Wins:LGBT promotes?
  6. What is this obsession by the Church of the Nazarene now, to focus so much on a particular behavior that is a sin, like any other sin?

So for your consideration, here is some very disturbing information about Andy McGee, founder of Love Wins:LGBT. Andy McGee has: supported gay activists who promote same sex marriage, praised a “gay Christian” conference, praised a racist organization, praised the National Coming Out Day, and has testified that he is bi-sexual.

This report was written by a Nazarene pastor. I believe Andy McGee and his ministry, and other ministries following the pattern of his organization, is causing great harm to the church and leading many down a false path.

 

Who Is Andy McGee?

Although Pastor McGee says all the right sounding things, tossing around generalities about “building bridges” and ambiguously using fine-sounding words such as “love” and “outreach,” I believe that he may not necessarily mean what he wants everyone to assume. There are other individuals who have sounded the alarm with regards to Mr. McGee, but I have purposely not included any of that material. Instead, I am allowing Andy to speak completely for himself through his own tweets, blog comments, and Facebook postings.

Prior to each tweet(s) or post, I will provide the necessary background information regarding the people and events that Pastor McGee is referring to. Please feel free to verify anything I say. Each post comes directly from either Andy’s personal or Love Wins Twitter accounts or Andy’s personal or Love Wins Facebook pages. (The only exception is Andy’s comment on an article written by Dr. Dan Boone.)

For clarity’s sake and to avoid being repetitive, one final note is in order before proceeding any further:

Any time I refer to “gay Christianity,” here’s exactly what I mean: The false belief that a person can be both a godly/obedient Christian and, at the same time, be homosexually active in a monogamous, same-sex “marriage” arrangement. What I do not mean is a Christian who has same-sex attractions, but remains celibate or is currently living in a monogamous, mixed-gender marriage. The latter is generally and rightly considered to be biblical, but the former is definitely not. Moreover, “gay Christianity” is, as you know, 100% at odds with Nazarene doctrine as well.

So, here we go (and this is only a portion of what I found)…

The President of Trevecca Nazarene University wrote an excellent article in defense of Title IX exemptions, which legally protect a Christian school’s constitutional right to not be forced to affirm homosexual behavior and ideology. Rev. Dan Boone’s article is well worth the read. You can click on this link later to read it:

http://www.danboone.me/title-ix-championing-every-kind-of-diversity-but-christian/

Andy McGee posted the following comment at the end of Rev. Boone’s article. Below, I have included the relevant portion of his comment, but it can be viewed in its entirety (including where he clearly identifies himself as the director of Love Wins: LGBT) by using the aforementioned link.

Andy indicates that transgender people do not simply choose “as they see fit” to transition to the opposite of their birth gender, but instead they only make such a life-altering decision after much time spent in prayer. So, as long as a person prays about it, then it apparently becomes okay to switch from male to female or vice versa. This presumably implies that God answers their prayers and somehow gives such individuals the green light to reject their anatomical and genetic gender. This is just another failed attempt at spiritualizing sin.

You might be wondering, why would Dr. Boone have allowed Andy to speak at his school, given what he said in this comment? I obviously can’t answer for Dr. Boone, but I do know that Andy spoke at Trevecca (July 2015) before making this post on Dan’s blog (Jan. 27, 2016.)

(NOTE: Of all of my specific concerns, this one about Dr. Boone is the only one that Andy has answered during our email exchanges. He said, “I was in no way trying to convey that such decisions were Biblically sound choices but was rather asking that a more loving language be used.” However, please read the rest of what I have found before rushing to any conclusions.)

Andy 1

SUPPORTING A HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVIST

Here’s a favorable tweet supporting homosexual activist Kevin Garcia. Andy is encouraging Mr. Garcia to “keep being a revolutionary.” What revolution might he be leading, you ask? He’s a self-described “gay Christian advocate,” trying to promote the false notion that Christianity and homosexual behavior are compatible. That’s not the kind of “revolution” any Christian should be cheering on!

Andy 2

SUPPORTING A “GAY CHRISTIAN” CONFERENCE

Here’s Andy tweeting support for a recent GCN Conference (Gay Christian Network) that he attended, which teaches that we really don’t/can’t know or don’t even have to agree as Christians with what the Bible says about homosexuality. And the last thing a morally-adrift world needs right now is more of that kind of confusion and uncertainty. Furthermore, the speaker that he commends in this tweet (Misty Irons) said in her presentation (21 pages posted on the Love Wins’ Facebook page, which I read) that godly Christianity and “gay Christianity” are not mutually exclusive concepts. She also said a lot of other misleading things in the same speech. Pastor Andy might argue that he was only referring to portions of her speech, but then he really should be more specific to avoid giving people the wrong impression. However, he never does that. He only tweets positive things about those who promote homosexual falsehoods, and he only posts negative things about evangelical individuals who are defending the truth — at least, that’s the only kind of tweets that I’ve been able to find. If, as Andy McGee tweeted, Misty really did “hit it out of the park,” then I would have to say that she hit it “out in left field somewhere!” (He also retweets Allyson Robinson who equates the Gay Christian Network Conference with “revival.” However, the full embrace of its theology would actually be the undoing of the church, not any kind of real revival.)

Andy 3

SUPPORTING ANOTHER SAME SEX MARRIAGE GROUP

This tweet praises a bisexual activist’s speech at TRPinKC (stands for The Reformation Project conference in Kansas City). The TRP goes even further off the deep end than the Gay Christian Network (mentioned above). The TRP unequivocally supports “gay Christianity” and  “same-sex “marriage.” They also go to great lengths to distort the clear teachings of Scripture on homosexuality to make their deceptive case.

Andy 4

APPROVING OF MATHEW VINES, ANOTHER GAY ACTIVIST

Tweeting his approval of Matthew Vines, the founder of The Reformation Project (mentioned above). Mr. Vines likes to label anyone who disagrees with his false teachings as a “bad tree” producing “bad fruit.” In other words, those telling the truth are the actual “bad guys.” (There’s more on Matthew later in this post)

Here’s a tweet praising a lesbian activist (Vicky Beeching) who was pushing more LGBT contortionist theology at the same Reformation Project Conference. He calls her an “inspiring voice.” A voice inspired by who? Certainly not God! A voice inspiring us to do what? To abandon solid Biblical teaching on the subject of homosexuality! (And I’ve heard her before on YouTube so I know that’s exactly what she’s been doing every chance she gets.)

Andy 5

SUPPORTING A RACIST MOVEMENT

Retweeting praise for the racist Black Lives Matter movement, which very recently sent a representative to a Harvard University debate to argue in favor of whites killing themselves because of their “white privilege.” I have also included a link to a video of the Harvard debate for your viewing.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4180/debater-harvard-says-white-people-should-kill-chase-stephens

SUPPORTING VICKY BEECHAM, A LESBIAN ACTIVIST

Here’s a tweet praising a lesbian activist (Vicky Beecham) who was pushing more LGBT contortionist theology at the same Reformation Project Conference. He calls her an “inspiring voice.” A voice inspired by who? Certainly not God! A voice inspiring us to do what? To abandon solid Biblical teaching on the subject of homosexuality! (And I’ve heard her before on YouTube so I know that’s exactly what she’s been doing every chance she gets.)
Andy 6
SUPPORTING NATIONAL COMING OUT DAY

A Facebook post in support of National Coming Out Day, which encourages people to come out and celebrate their homosexuality. To be out loud and proud…and to publicly embrace the gay lifestyle. Andy describes those who “come out” as being “honest with themselves and with those around them.” Truth is, though, they are falling prey to the world’s lies by succumbing to sin’s deceptiveness!

He also implies that there are only two possible responses that heterosexuals can have towards those that “come out”: Rejection or Celebration. But BOTH are wrong. There is third better way: to lovingly point them to Christ (repentance) and His powerful transformation through the Holy Spirit. After all, I thought we were a holiness denomination, not a sin-celebrating one!

Andy 8

APPROVING A PRO-HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVIST WHO IS MARRIED TO A WOMAN

Here he tweets his affirmation for open lesbian Jan Shannon, a minister in the liberal UCC denomination, which has completely sold out to the pro-homosexual viewpoint. Following this tweet is a picture of “Rev.” Shannon with her “wife” Deb Roth. So, yet again, Andy gushingly pours out the approval for a woman who is promoting outright heresy and apostasy in her church. Proverbs 28:23 would actually be more appropriate in this case: “Whoever rebukes a person will in the end gain favor rather than one who has a flattering tongue.”

Andy 9

SUPPORTING ADAM HAMILTON AND RACHEL HELD EVANS, TWO GAY ACTIVISTS

A tweet congratulating Adam (Hamilton) and Rachel (Held Evans) for their appointment to President Obama’s Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. So, these two can now go national with their destructive teachings. In my opinion, congratulations are not in order.

Hamilton’s gay activism is well known to me because he is a United Methodist pastor in Leawood, Kansas, and he was promoting a plan at the UMC General Conference during the Summer of 2016 in Portland, Oregon, which (if passed) would have allow for individual districts to abandon the denomination’s historic stance on homosexuality. This terrible plan would enable pastors to 1. Be openly gay/lesbian/bi/transgender themselves, 2. Preach in favor of homosexuality, and 3. Officiate same-sex “marriage” ceremonies even though all of this currently violates their Book of Discipline (the equivalent of the Nazarene Manual). Hamilton has also written books that push the idea that the Bible does not prohibit all kinds of homosexual behavior.

Rachel Held Evans, likewise, supports same-sex marriage, transgenderism, so-called “gay Christianity,” etc. She has spent a lot of time boasting about leaving evangelicalism for episcopalianism, and as most people know, the Episcopalians have gone gay all the way and effectively ripped their denomination apart in the process. Following the tweet below are links to two of her pro-sin/Bible-distorting/confusion-sowing blogs. Rachel’s second article sings the praises of Matthew Vines’ Bible-mangling book God and the Gay Christian. As you might recall from earlier in this post, Matthew is the founder of The Reformation Project, which is a group that holds conferences all across the country to spread the false gospel of “gay Christianity” and distorts the clear teachings of the Bible on homosexuality. You might also remember that Andy McGee recently attended one of the Reformation Project conferences, and he praised its founder, speakers, and the overall impact of their efforts.

Andy 10

Rachel’s first article: The False Gospel of Gender Binaries:
http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/gender-binaries

Rachel’s second article: God and the Gay Christian Discussion
http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/god-and-the-gay-christian-discussion-week-6-conclusion

ANDY ADMITS TO BEING BISEXUAL

Finally, I saved the “best” for last. In this tweet, Andy links to a video of his personal testimony. It’s not that the video is entirely bad per se, but it’s just that he buys into the whole idea that our identity is primarily based upon our sexual desires instead of Christ and the image of God. You can click on the link immediately below the following tweet and watch the brief 3-1/2 minute video for yourself.

Andy 11

Here is Andy McGee of “Love Wins: LGBT,” who spoke at our District Assembly [a few years ago] and set up a booth at our General Assembly (6/2017) in his own words: [NOTE: This link takes you to a YouTube video, but it’s no longer viewable. Since I originally pointed it out, Andy has made it private access. But in the video, Andy describes how he’s bisexual. It’s part of some #stillbisexual movement. If you look under that hashtag on YouTube, you’ll see others doing the same thing. I asked him about this during a Q&A session at our District Assembly [a few years ago], and he affirmed that he is bisexual, but non-practicing. It’s also safe to assume that Andy may have removed some of the incriminating posts mentioned above, and that’s exactly why I saved the screen shots as proof.]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J-WcbSQBv2g

Taken individually, Pastor McGee might be able to explain away single pieces of the above information, but overall, it is my belief that they paint a comprehensive picture of one who supports unbiblical teachings and is endeavoring to subtly disseminate them throughout our denomination.

ONE FINAL NOTE:

At the Mission 15 Conference held in Kansas City on Feb. 11, 2015, Andy McGee, the Director of Love Wins: LGBT, moderated a panel discussion based upon the following question: “What to Do After a Congregant Says, ‘I’m Gay’?”

Below is a transcript of a very disturbing remark made by one of the panelists: Rev. Rick Power, Hawaii-Pacific District Superintendent.

Rev. Powers was specifically asked the following question: “Does being gay make one ineligible for membership and/or church leadership positions?” (The key portions of his quote are printed in bold, and the most appalling portions come near the end of the citation. So, please completely read this quotation in its entirety before drawing any conclusions.)

Here’s Rev. Power’s verbatim answer to the above-mentioned question (see footnotes below for my comments):

“It keeps occurring to me that my view/our view and our convictions on these issues are shaped by our context and our history in this faith community. You know, this is not, our views are not just dropped down out of heaven into our laps.1 They are mediated to us. Our view of Scripture, the way we interpret it, our definition of marriage and our understanding of human sexuality and our definition of sin and all these things come to us through our tradition.2 So, we might pretend like we have a God’s-eye view of these things,3 but really we’re a product of this stream of [indecipherable word], which is a good thing. I mean, I believe the Spirit is at work, speaking to the church, but it’s always mixed with fallibility and sinfulness so I think we have to be humble in our pronouncements.

“This particular question is, uh, I have encountered as a pastor and because of what we’ve learned about sexual orientation,4 uh, having same sex orientation in no way should hinder a person from membership in the church or leadership, but because of where we are in this journey,5 there probably are some qualifications. And so, when a young man who was an outstanding youth worker came to me and came out to me as a gay man, I had some questions for him. I said, ‘Are you now or have you been active in a same-sex relationship?’ And he answered, ‘no,’ because the call is to sexual purity for heterosexuals and homosexuals. Then, the next question related more specifically to his role as a leader in the church. I said, ‘Are you planning publicly to come out, because if you do, this faith community at the present moment is not able to bear that knowledge. And so, as long as you keep this to yourself, you can continue in your ministry role. We have confidence in you. You’re doing a wonderful job. But at such time that you choose to come out, then we’re not going to be able to bear that at this moment in our history. I hope that will change.’ And then, I think it’s also a pastoral responsibility to let people know that there are other faith communities that will affirm them in a covenantal, monogamous relationship, and that perhaps the Spirit would lead them to such a community.6 That’s not my way of saying, ‘We hope you’ll leave our fellowship’ because I don’t want them to leave. I want them to stay and work with us and be a catalyst for change and growth in this area.7 And so, I hope the Spirit will speak to them and lead them to stay, but I feel like it’s a pastoral responsibility to say that within the kingdom, there are other faith communities that have a different stand on this,8 but here in the Church of the Nazarene, we have definition of marriage, we have a view of homosexual activity, and that’s who we are, and again, that’s where we stand at this point on the journey.”5

Here’s the audio Link to hear this for yourself (http://www.graceandpeacemagazine.org/m15-conference-wednesday-session-4-audio).

It’s the last audio file in the list, entitled: “What to Do After a Congregant Says, ‘I’m Gay’?”

Rev. Power’s words begin at the 17:53 mark and runs until 22:11.

FOOTNOTES:

1, 2, 3 Each of these phrases seem to downplay the inspiration of Scripture, and overemphasize the traditions and ideas of humanity. However, through the Bible, we do have truth “dropped down out of heaven” and “a God’s-eye view” of human sexuality and the definition of sin.

4 Modern understandings of sexual orientation may be somewhat helpful, but ultimately, we’re all oriented towards sin (born with a sin nature). Therefore, much of our contemporary psychobabble is in direct conflict with biblical teachings.

5 Rev. Power repeatedly talks about our “journey” regarding the COTN’s stance on the issue of homosexuality. In speaking of our “definition of marriage” and “view of homosexuality,” he concludes his comments by stating “that’s where we stand at this point on the journey.” But that’s were we should stand FOREVER. The Word of God is NEVER going to change so neither should our beliefs regarding homosexuality.

6 Rev. Powers thinks that in certain instances, it’s his “pastoral responsibility” to point people to churches that affirm homosexual relationships and homosexual behavior. AND he shockingly thinks that the Holy Spirit might actually lead members of the LGBT community to these same apostate churches!? The Holy Spirit is definitely NOT going to direct anyone to a church that lies to them and leads them to hell. The Devil might do this, but not the Holy Spirit…NEVER!

7 Based upon portions of this quotation, I can’t help but wonder what kind of “change and growth in this area” that Rev. Power might have in mind. Personally, I don’t think his ideas for change are in accord with the doctrines of the Church of the Nazarene.

8 Once again, Rev. Power refers to his “pastoral responsibility” to let people know about other churches that have “a different stand on [homosexuality].” And shockingly, he says that they are “within the kingdom.” NO, THEY ARE NOT! These deceiving churches are most certainly and completely outside of the kingdom of God.

Church of the Nazarene Adopts New Human Sexuality Resolution, Votes to Dumb Down Sin

Compromise- a bad compromise- has happened again, as the General Assembly of the Church of the Nazarene removes clear language that condemns the sin of homosexuality. Instead of retaining a hard but honest truth, the previous statement on Human Sexuality has been further eroded, paving the way for another watering down of biblical truth four years from now.
CA-701_BOG

The following response by a sister in the Lord speaks for me and many other Nazarenes who have been watching and hoping for truth to prevail.

“As I head off to Chicago today for meetings, it will be with a heavy heart. The church is changing in the name of progress, and that’s not a good thing.

While there may be varying degrees of sin in man’s eyes, in God’s eyes there are not. One is as bad as another.

One saint said yesterday that God calls out sin. He calls a drunk a drunkard, a prostitute a whore, and a man who will not work, lazy. He says in his Word that homosexuality is an abomination, and the shedding of innocent blood murder and yet our church feels these words too strong, too offensive and too exclusive.

Where were the sanctified saints yesterday? Why would resolution 701 pass overwhelmingly in a holiness church? What part of the word perversion don’t we understand? Perhaps a refresher on its meaning will help:

“The alteration of something from its original course, meaning or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended” is its definition. It sounds like the sin nature of man to me. We are ALL perverse beings in our lostness. Our perverse nature is the very reason Christ came and went to the cross.

We have drifted far from the message of salvation. We’ve negated the need for the blood bought church to preach the need for repentance. “Why repent? You’re fine” we cry. “We LOVE you as you are. There is no more need for you to come out from among them and be ye separate. We’ll come to you. We will live among you. Your people will be our people.”

We twist and we turn the Word of God into a different gospel. And I’m sickened by it all.

I wonder what Almighty God thinks of our church today. One of the GS’ stated yesterday that God is pleased with us. I hardly think so. In fact, if I were to guess, I’d say we are seconds (if not closer) to be spewed from His mouth.

May God have mercy on us all.”

(Kelli Frazier)

As much as I am not surprised at this continued meltdown of biblical doctrine, it still pains me greatly. What I want to know is what was the reasoning behind this decision. In fact, I would like to know what was the BIBLICAL reasoning. What got into the heads of the folks in the committee, and then finally the general assembly voting body? What got into the heads of the General Superintendents? After all, they drafted this resolution. What drove them to come up with a resolution that essentially takes away from an accurate, biblical description of homosexuality and the perversion that it is! Was God’s word too harsh for them? Are they ashamed at what God’s word describes homosexuality as, that it is an abomination, that it is a perversion of God’s intent for proper human sexuality?

Are they afraid of offending someone? Don’t they know that the Gospel is an offense to those who are perishing? “For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” 1 Cor. 1:18.

The news of Holland and their “progress and plans for acceptance of homosexuals n the full body of Christ has fallen on deaf ears. The Generals have tuned me out, even an old family friend, and do not care to answer me, nor many Nazarenes who write to them. They are too busy watering down doctrinal statements I guess. And this is not the last troublesome resolution. There is more watering down to be done. This only the next step; wait another four years to see how hard the house will fall.

And so it is. They are all intent on staying on this politically correct, man-pleasing path. They will gain favor with the world for this. In the meantime, they allow groups such as Love Wins:LGBT to promote their deceptive “gospel” message. They cater to homosexuality just like the secular world; they are no different. They talk about love, love, love. And yet, they have forgotten that love without obedience is not love. 2nd John says in verse 6: “And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.” No obedience, no love. Just hollow words.

Yes, this General Assembly will be more remembered for a perverted sinful behavior, than for any hollow-sounding resolutions, sermons, or worship services. Oh, they will be slapping each other’s backs and gushing over the latest and greatest “man of God.”

But they have been duped, the foxes have been let into the hen house, and souls will be led to hell because of it. And yet, perhaps maybe, just maybe, God has called someone from within the halls of power, to stand like Martin Luther and say, stop! Enough is enough.

But if nothing turns the ship around, at least our conscience will be clean before God.

 

“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason – I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other – my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen.” Martin Luther