Some of the Reasons I Have Lost Interest in Being Involved with the Church of the Nazarene

The following account is a very accurate picture of the state of mind within the Church of the Nazarene today. All Christians should take warning.

Some of the Reasons I Have Lost Interest in Being Involved with the Church of the Nazarene

My story goes back several years where I saw things that troubled me.  Among the first was the time I was challenged in a Sunday school lesson I taught at Nashville First.  The topic was biblical creation and the challengers were an Old Testament professor at Trevecca Nazarene College and a biology professor at Middle Tennessee State University, both members of the class.  They took the evolutionism side.  No one in the Nazarene system seemed to be all that concerned about it.

There were other instances, such as the snickering comments about those old fashioned Nazarenes of years gone by, and a growing interest in things I felt biblically uncomfortable about.

The time came when I encountered something called Emergent Nazarenes and the current pastor was telling me privately that after the upcoming general assembly I would not recognize the Church of the Nazarene.

I began to search for answers and came across much more than I ever expected.  I found out that the denomination and its leadership, publishing house, and academic institutions had all but plunged headlong into the emergent heresies.  It was everywhere and openly promoted.  That plummet continues to this day.

When that pastor resigned, I implored our church board to diligently avoid calling an emergent pastor and gave them abundant examples of what to avoid.  My concerns and warnings were disregarded and they brought in a classic emergent who has led that church downward into the emergent abyss since.  Where once the church flourished in attendance, spirit, and finances it now is losing and diminishing in every instance.

I had moved on to a smaller Nazarene church before the new pastor arrived and found there a remnant of true believers.  As I looked about, however, I found that they were a rare example of old-fashioned Nazarenes, including their pastor.  Even smaller churches were taking the emergent plunge and the [Nazarene] Publishing House was getting worse until it finally closed under the cloud of shame of misconduct and mismanagement.  Its efforts at recovery are not going well.

Within a matter of months, if that long, the new pastor from Chicago had started the church in a different direction that incorporated postmodern/new age worship styles, Catholic copies, studies in heresy publications such as Rob Bell’s books.  Within two or three years he was promoting social justice activities for community “outreach” and more recently promoted “interpretative dancing” with the children in the sanctuary.  This all replaced the mourner’s bench activities.

Even at the small church we attended, there was an emergent associate pastor who was spewing his bile of false doctrine among good people.  He was arrogant and defiant when my wife and I faced him with it and I had decided to go elsewhere.  I had made up my mind that, at the end of a particular Sunday morning service, I would pack up my musical equipment, and go elsewhere.

However, the pastor announced his resignation and I felt I might remain through that interim period until another pastor was called, hoping he could lead the little church to better things.  The associate had to eventually be fired because he refused to resign as he was required to do when the senior pastor resigns.

I helped in the search and came up with the name of a man I was convinced would be very suitable.  The district superintendent would not allow him to be interviewed because he had been at odds with his current superintendent over the emergent issues and refused to send in his church’s budget payments because of the superintendent’s support for emergent errors.

The Tennessee superintendent had already stated to one of the members that if our church ever stopped supporting itself (paying its budgets) that he would put up a for-sale sign in a heartbeat.  The property is valued at two or more million dollars.

I kept up with the minister the superintendent would not allow us to interview.  He accepted a call to a church in a neighboring district and is doing well there.  He has a fine group of young people (what he had promised to do for us) and is active in district functions.  I suppose he is paying his budget there.  All he ever wanted was to be allowed to be a Nazarene pastor without having the emergent stuff shoved down his throat.

Nazarene ministers across the country and in other parts of the world are eagerly following after the emergent compromise in large numbers.  They discuss among themselves the merits of “creation evolutionism,” homosexual orientation, and question whether they ever got it right on the doctrine of entire sanctification.  Many are vitriolic towards other Nazarenes who openly express support for biblical inerrancy and complete inspiration of all parts of the Bible.  They demean those who dare to say that friendship with the world is enmity against God.  The laity is generally indifferent and compliant.

There is now a group across the denomination that calls itself Sacramental Nazarenes*.  They promote Catholic-inspired approaches to “worship” instead of the traditional Nazarene approaches.

The problem is compounded in that this spiritual sickness is an epidemic across the entire Wesleyan holiness movement.  Not one major Wesleyan holiness denomination is untouched by these heresies.  Not one major denominational school remains true to its holiness heritage.  Not one publishing house of those denominations is legitimately holiness anymore.

The so-called splinter groups may hold to the doctrine but they are rotted on the inside with legalism by going to the opposite extreme.

There is a remnant but they are difficult to find because they are so few and scattered.  Even those still within the backslidden denominations are subject to takeover by the heretics, so they must always be walking on eggs.

That leaves a lot of displaced Nazarenes—those who have had to leave for the sake of conscience or who have spoken up and been forced to leave their churches.  Some have gone to other denominations (themselves plagued with postmodern and emergent heresies) and, in some cases, a few come together in small groups.

That will work to a point but there will need to be leadership at some point.  Since Nazarene leadership has essentially jumped ship that means that holiness leadership has to come from among those groups.  It is the New Testament Church all over again.  Maybe that is a good thing.

​ *Members of Sacramental Nazarenes includes the president of the seminary, a former general Superintendent, and other leaders in the church.​

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/sacramental-nazarenes-blaspheming-the-lord-now

What Will happen Now That Same Sex Marriage Has Been Approved Nationwide?

One of the books in my fairly small library is written by the late Robert Bork, a former federal judge, lawyer and conservative scholar with a brilliant mind whose nomination for the U.S. Supreme Court in 1987 was de-railed by the liberal left in his confirmation hearings. Having read many of his writings, I can see that if he had been appointed to the highest court, that we would have today one of the most outstanding constitutional minds ever to be on the Supreme Court. In his book called Slouching Towards Gomorrah, he offers us a view of a culture in decline; a nation whose very foundation is crumbling due to the serious moral crisis that it is going through. The will to resist the path that liberalism and egalitarianism is taking us is our only hope, according to an afterword he wrote in his last edition. How prophetic was he?

On Friday, June 26, the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 ruling, wrote more law, instead of performing their constitutional duty of interpreting the law and leaving such matters to the states. Never mind that they also ignored God’s natural law and decided to become the supreme arbiters of what is moral. Today, another step towards the eventual and complete moral destruction of the nation was taken. It also is a further step closer to God’s judgment on this country. The decision declares that homosexuals are free to “marry” in any of the 50 states, including the 14 which now forbid homosexual marriage. This result was not surprising. I am certain Robert Bork would never have voted yes for this ruling.

Also not surprising was a statement by the professing Christian president of the United States, Barack Obama, who said in an eight minute speech that this decision “will strengthen all our communities” and “is a victory for America.” This is the same Obama whose belief (while running for office) was that he believed that marriage was strictly between a man and a woman. This man who professes to be a Christian, has now once again rejected God’s law in favor of man’s law. But we have more to be concerned about than just one man’s unbiblical thinking, although he has tremendous influence whenever he speaks.

This is the path to Sodom and Gomorrah American-style. I had some thoughts about this decision when I first heard it. I asked myself, what will this lead to? Many share the same thoughts that I do, that this will lead not only to further moral decline, but also to increasing persecution of Christians, simply for speaking the truth or for trying to live their lives by their Christian conscience. We are already targets of the radicals and liberals who want to force not only acceptance, but they also seek complete and blanket approval, and even celebration, of their perverted and sinful behavior. We will now become even bigger targets, perhaps even at the risk of losing our jobs or businesses, because it does not stop with this. The “right” to marry will not be enough for the “tolerant ones.”

Not only that, but we will see further collapse of the Christian evangelical churches as they cross the line from biblical truth, to compromise and affirmation of homosexual “Christians.” It will come. This will be even worse than persecution from the outside. For a more complete treatise on some of the things that will most likely happen, see David Cloud’s article (What Rights Will Others Lose When Homosexuals Gain Their Rights?).

Mr. Obama also said today that “shifts in hearts and minds is possible.” That’s the problem, you see, in the Christian church. Many Christians are wrongly shifting their hearts and minds towards a rejection of God’s law, sometimes just because their child or grandchild has declared to be homosexual! We cannot shift away from the unchanging word of God! Yet, out of sympathy perhaps for the homosexual and their “loving and committed relationships”, many Christians have become “gay-affirming”, and have lost the desire to plainly show a sinner that sin, no matter what kind, will lead a person to hell.

Finally, it has been a long time since I gave any kind of positive comment regarding the Nazarene Board of General Superintendents. If they are reading this, then I say thank you for quickly making a statement that is unambiguous and biblically solid. It will draw severe criticism from the radicals who want full acceptance and approval by the church, but it had to be said. Their statement can be read here. That being said, they still have much to do to stop the influx of emergent ideology and other false teachings in the church, including the infiltration of the homosexual agenda in our own churches and colleges.

So I posed my question on both the Concerned Nazarenes Facebook page, and Concerned Christians as well. Below are responses from several Christians (Names withheld because the group is a closed group). Hopefully these thoughts will make some of us ponder what is to come down the road. May God help us to stand firm in our faith, to not compromise in any way what He has clearly taught in Scripture.

 

Question: What will this Lead To Now?

“One by one, the moral lines in our nation have been crossed, or will soon be crossed. The relativism and lack of moral accountability espoused, taught by our educational institutions, and increasingly embraced by the current generation means that there is no basis for truth or retaining moral boundaries. What’s worse is the tolerance demanded by godless society, is increasingly not extended or granted to those who follow Christ. Christians are the only ones who it is acceptable to harass, marginalize, and discriminate against. It will be increasingly so. The persecution of Christians is just beginning and we know it will get worse. We should not be surprised, as the Bible talks of the last days as being increasingly wicked, and “as in the days of Noah”. Yet, we are not to fear! Hold fast to God’s Word in your hearts, “Do not fear for I am with you, do not be dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.” Be bold and courageous for the Lord while he gives you breath, and fear no man. Our future is in Heaven!”

“Those who oppose will be labeled as hate-mongers and bigots. They will be let go from jobs, churches will be forced to recognize same-sex marriages or they will lose their 501C-3. Pastors who preach the Bible will be charged with hate speech and will serve prison time.”

“This is definitely not the end, it is only the beginning of something even more evil. This is a great gateway for demons to be unleashed on the US, but I believe it is also a poke in the eye of conservative religiosity in order to stir them into a revolt so that the government can justify committing troops against it’s citizens.”

“It’s a sad day. We call good evil and evil good.”

“Instead of closet sins, they will be open in front of everyone. It would be illogical to assume that it hasn’t been going on. So now it will become something very public and in your face. The biggest issue to me is the freedom of speech.”

“The issue for “gay Marriage” has never been a right to sharing as partners, i.e medical insurance. They already had that right. The issue was to push their agenda to pervert marriage so that it no longer holds a sacred vow. A while back I read a book called “The Criminalization of Christianity.” This has been the homosexual agenda since the 1980’s. They have been setting people in places of importance to their cause and slowly infiltrating into the mainstream the idea that being gay is not a sin and is actually just another lifestyle. I do not see “gay marriages” lasting and as a matter of fact in the places where it was already legalized they are already seeing them in divorce courts. My heartache is for the innocent children that will be brought into this perverted life style. At this point, I believe that there is no turning back. The judgment of God is coming soon.”

I am wondering how this will affect the church. Will pastors be given the ultimatum to perform gay wedding ceremonies or have the doors to their churches shut?
I thought to myself-well, they could just make a rule that they will only do weddings for members, but technically, someone could come in single, join the church, then later ask the pastor to marry them to their gay partner. I am sure someone would do it just to spite the churches. It’s a scary day for sure. I also don’t think God is going to let this go unpunished.

There will definitely be a day of accountability – or God’s Word isn’t true (and we know it is!). We’re in for some rough days ahead. I HOPE and PRAY that sinners recognize the reasons for judgment. We, as Christians, will have to trust God to help and protect us, according to His will.

Today is a temporary victory for those who follow after their own belly, and stand in judgment over God. Psalm 2 …..comes to mind:

Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
“Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.”
The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.

The humanists are celebrating their perceived victory over God’s Word..
Trim your lamps.”

 

Isaiah 5:20 “Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

So…God has told us in His word what is good concerning sodomy and what is evil concerning sodomy, and the United States of America has told God, once again, that He means nothing to us and we will not listen to His word. We have told Him we do not want Him in our schools. We have told Him we do not want Him in our wombs. 57 million dead babies will testify in heaven as to what a terrible decision that was. We have now told Him that we do not want Him in our marriages. We have dared Him to do something about it. We have, once again, decided to spit in His face. This time, though, we have done it by siding with a community (the sodomites) whose only goal in history has been to openly rebel against God with filthy and prideful displays of their sexual perversions (please see any PRIDE parade), and dominate and abuse any weaker people (see Genesis 19 and Judges 19 and ask any Christian cake bakers/photographers in our day and age). Please realize that as a Bible believing Christian, now that the US has approved this abomination, if you stand on the word of God and declare this as the wicked sin it is, you WILL be persecuted. They will come after the churches as well, pushing for full acceptance of their lifestyle by all of them, and I encourage you to get out of any church that compromises on this issue. Watch the public school systems as well. There will be a tremendous push for the children to be exposed to it more and more. It’s already happening.

The United States is gone. Welcome to the United Sodom of Gomorrica.

 

Does Anyone Have A Match?

(By Lige Jeter)

The Church of the Nazarene was founded upon holiness, leading its followers into the experience of entire sanctification. Without being judgmental, given the laissez-faire direction many have chosen drifting away from moral living, the church can no longer ignore its spiritual state and continue on its current path. Unless we return to holiness, its teaching, and experience, as warned in (1 Samuel 4: 21) we may as well write “Ichabod” over our door “The glory has departed.”

If the church ever needed to return to its beginning heritage, it is now. When was the last time you saw someone redeemed from sin or sanctified at an altar of prayer? How long has it been since you heard a message concerning salvation or sanctification. Has the church lost its edge or have we “Misplaced it?” To misplace something simply means to leave it in the wrong place, or to lose it, temporarily forgetting where you placed it. The normal thing to assume is that it will still be there when and if we search for it.

Do not take this as one throwing stones or casting aspersions, nor slandering the church or saying anything false or malicious. Only to probe the question “Has the church lost its edge or have we misplaced it?” A large number of those professing a relationship with Christ upon leaving the church service conduct their lives on par with those in the world who do not profess anything. It is a sad day in Christendom when it becomes difficult to distinguish the church group by their behavior from the un-churched. The church is allowing customs that are pagan in nature and questionable teaching (as Manny has pointed out) in our Churches, Universities, and Seminary that weakens God’s word in truth and provide no spiritual benefit to those who practice or endorse them.

Holiness was and continues to be, the Biblical standard for living. The command to live a holy life is found in both the Old and New Testament. “Be holy for I am holy (Leviticus 11: 44) and (1 Peter 1: 16).” In the Old Testament, man was not only to worship God, but was to imitate Him in their lifestyle. Their lives were to be a carbon copy of their Creator reflecting His moral character. Nothing that suggested even the least corrupt can be associated with God. They believed because they were commanded to be holy, which carried a dual responsibility, one positive and the other negative. The positive is; they are to emulate God, and keep His laws and do the right things. The negative and most difficult to achieve was the withdrawal from things impure and loathsome, and not to do the things you should abstain.

It was the duty of every Israelite to strive as was attainable under the law, whether it was physical or spiritual. They were to avoid whatever would defile them and keep them from living holy lives. The intention of imitating God may have had its’ roots in the Old Testament, but it also found its way into the New Testament. Paul’s letters to the Ephesians and Philippians gives support to this. “Therefore, be imitators of God as dear children (Ephesians 5: 1).” “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God (Philippians 2: 5 – 6).”

For moral reasons, correctly imitating God is in no way robbing God of what rightfully belongs to Him. To the contrary, we are ascribing to God what is His already. Jesus as our example while here upon earth was to glorify God through His life, and do the work that He was to accomplish. Our role is to emulate that of a servant, as Christ taught His disciples. Pointing out our Lord’s interest now becomes our interest.

Jesus asked the question in Matthew 6: “If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!” The light Jesus is talking about has a direct correlation to our conscience that regulates or controls our spiritual conduct. If our conscience is impaired, meaning not focused heavenward, it will become distorted and take on a different character determined by the amount of darkness that has crept into the church.

Lige Jeter

Open Letter To Dr. McGee, Other Nazarene College Presidents, and General Superintendents, Regarding Tony Campolo

Dear Dr. McGee,

A few years ago in 2010, my wife and I visited your campus where we met with you, the college chaplain (Corey McPherson) and college provost (Tim Wooster). I have always appreciated your kindness in inviting us to express our concerns to you, and we were treated with respect by you, Tim, and Corey. In spite of our total disagreement on the issues we raised, we recognize the fact that few Nazarenes leaders have even been willing to give us, and many other concerned Nazarenes, the opportunity to share our deep concerns.

Our main reason for coming to the campus was to warn you regarding the agenda and theology of Tony Campolo. Our warnings were not heeded, and it was made clear to us at that meeting that the leadership of Eastern Nazarene College are perfectly fine with Tony Campolo speaking to the students in chapel.

Later in October, Dr. Campolo confirmed our fears, and went on to promote his false ideas of contemplative spirituality, promoting mantra prayers and mysticism to the students, while plugging shamelessly his “social justice” agenda to the students. In one of his comments to the students, he stated that “I say the name of Jesus over and over again”, and suggested that we try it, that we should do it for 15 minutes, until this ritual “drives away the dark forces around us.” He promoted centering prayer, an unbiblical practice that has no basis in Scripture. Quote: “it takes only 15 minutes to be inwardly still.” He asked, “when was the last time you were still for 20 minutes- so that you can come alive in Christ?” He continued on by promoting an occultic version of Christian called Celtic Spirituality, referring to “thin places”.

I remember looking around and wondering why any of these pastors are not standing up against this guy’s false ideology being pushed onto these young impressionable students?   I still recall when the wife of a pastor approached me and my brother outside after the service, gushing about how wonderful his message was. How shocked she was when I told her that Tony Campolo is a false teacher, and should never be allowed to speak at a Christian college. It is so sad to see the lack of discernment today in supposedly mature Christian adults, as well as pastors, who are charged with a heavier responsibility to protect the flock.

(His capitulation to political correctness and ecumenicalism is very evident in his writings, including his statement in the past implying that perhaps we worship the same God as do the Muslims). He does not even know whether Jesus only abides in Christians! Quote: “I am saying that there is no salvation apart from Jesus; that’s my evangelical mindset. However, I am not convinced that Jesus only lives in Christians (National Liberty Journal, 8/99)

Quote: “…what can I say to an Islamic brother who has fed the hungry, and clothed the naked? You say, “But he hasn’t a personal relationship with Christ.” I would argue with that. And I would say from a Christian perspective, in as much as you did it to the least of these you did it unto Christ. You did have a personal relationship with Christ, you just didn’t know it.”

EVANGELICALS AND INTERFAITH COOPERATION, An Interview by Shane Claiborne

Is This The Last Straw?

Now Dr. Campolo has finally gone to the next level, and has been totally deceived by Satan. He has capitulated to the gay and lesbian agenda. Here is his latest pronouncement on the issue:

“It has taken countless hours of prayer, study, conversation and emotional turmoil to bring me to the place where I am finally ready to call for the full acceptance of Christian gay couples into the Church.”

You can read his entire statement from his website here:

http://tonycampolo.org/for-the-record-tony-campolo-releases-a-new-statement/#.VXmX06bkU1T

My question to you, to all the college presidents, to president Sunberg of Nazarene Theological Seminary, to the District leaders, and to the General Superintendents of the church, who are also charged with defending biblical doctrines of the church:

Are you going to continue allowing Tony Campolo to bring his unbiblical doctrines onto our college campuses, to freely espouse the heresies that he promotes? Has Tony Campolo now gone too far even for those of you who, up until now, have had no problem accepting him on campus?

And furthermore, will you go the extra mile and not just ban him from all college campuses, but you will do so publically at all Nazarene colleges and on the Nazarene website, and call for his repentance?

Or will you continue to stay silent as you have on so many critical issues in the past several years, and continue to allow the Church of the Nazarene to further degrade into its own version of the Laodicean church in Revelation.

“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation. ‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. (Rev. 3:14-16)

Sincerely asking on behalf of many Bible believing Christians and Nazarenes,

Manny Silva

Links for reference:

http://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2015/06/10/tony-campolo-completes-his-surrender-to-big-gay

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2010/10/21/profiles-in-apostasy-tony-campolo/

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/tony-campolos-thin-places-occultic-christianity/

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/false-prophet-tony-campolo-promotes-doctrines-of-demons-to-enc-students/

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/false-teacher-campolo-to-speak-at-southern-nazarene-university/

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/olivet-nazarene-lets-false-teacher-campolo-speak-in-chapel/

Why I am Compelled to Oppose Homosexuality

(By John Henderson)
I am under obligation to declare the whole council of God. I would not know that homosexuality (behavior and orientation) were an abomination before God outside of the Scriptures. I recall the time when homosexuals asked only to be left to themselves. We did that. Then they asked for more and more, each time getting what they asked for. Now they are in a militant demand-mode to the point that American ministers are being threatened imprisonment in some places if they refuse to perform “gay” marriages and American Christian businesses are being fined for refusing to serve “gay” customers.

There was a period when, as a practicing psychotherapist, I carried a client load of homosexuals seeking counseling about their difficulties surrounding the sin. Without exception, when I brought them face to face with the solution of deliverance in Jesus Christ, they walked away, some being haughtily offended that I should even suggest they were in need of forgiveness and redemption. Every one of my clients intentionally chose to follow the homosexual lifestyle instead of coming to Christ. Word got around and they stopped seeking me as a counselor.
I am not aware of anyone at this time in my family who is homosexual. There are those, however, who are very dear to me who are addicted to other kinds of sin, sins just as damning. I do not make excuses for them but let those I love know with biblical clarity where they stand and what needs to happen in their lives whenever the subject should come up. I am obligated before God to be true to their eternal souls.
There is not one person caught up in that lifestyle that I do not feel strong compassion for, often to the point of tears. But I cannot, through false sentimentality, make them feel comfortable, accepted, and secure in the sin they have chosen. There are leaders in my own denomination who coddle them, sooth them, and make them feel comfortable in this choice of theirs and it is damning their poor souls to hell. Those leaders shall answer to God for that failure to be a watchman on the tower.
If my own sons, daughters, or sister announced they were “gay”, I would still love them. They would be just as welcome in my home as ever before. I would not engage in shaming or humiliating them or doing anything to put them down or alienate them from my love. Any “gay” stranger or acquaintance in need of help will get that help without qualification or hesitation. At the same time—and they would already know this—I would not let them off the hook concerning the claims of Christ on their souls. I would not change God’s rules just because they were precious to me or because I needed to better “understand” them somehow.
I do not go about seeking battles with homosexuals. The homosexual agenda is another matter. It is currently a powerful tool of the Marxist socialist agenda with the self-proclaimed objective of undermining and eventually destroying the Christian biblical influence in our society. It is not a person-on-person struggle. It is a struggle of two worlds, each with diametrically opposite objectives. People are only the pawns in a demonic battle against the Church of our Lord—which is actually a rebellion against the Lordship of Christ.
If my dear ones should choose to follow that way (or any other way that leads to destruction), I will be forced, with broken heart, to watch them slipping into hell. Since I do not want to be caught in that position, I intend to cry out all the more in warning that they are going 190 miles an hour down a dead-end street. I had rather hurt their feelings and offend them greatly, and have them despise me than to be even partly responsible for what becomes of them if this is the direction they choose for themselves.

I am aware there are desperate attempts to justify homosexuality, especially in efforts to make it appear that it is somehow okay with God and even supported by the Bible. There are homosexual “churches”, homosexual “ministers” and even a “Queen James Bible” translation. That is only whistling in the dark.
2 Peter 2:7 tells us that God “rescued righteous Lot, who was deeply distressed by the lifestyle of the lawless in [their] debauchery.” One may assume he probably brought up the subject more than once while living there. We know he remained righteous in spite of it to the point that God had to remove him and his family before he could destroy the two cities because of Abraham’s prayer. God would have spared the cities had there been only ten righteous in both places, but there were only Lot, his wife (who perished afterwards), and two daughters. One might assume that only Lot was righteous and the other three benefited with their lives because of his righteousness.
When righteousness is removed, homosexuality takes over and the wrath of God is all that remains. Even those who could have escaped, such as Lot’s two sons-in-law, will perish along with the intentionally degenerate. The simple truth is that you cannot mock God and expect Him to look the other way.

Karl Giberson Needs God In His life

Last week, I sent out a petition asking for support for the “laying off” of Tom Oord at Northwest Nazarene University. Dr. Oord, although a nice guy personally, should not ever have been allowed to continue teaching his heretical views for years at the school. He believes in evolution, open theism, and process theology. He believes the Bible has errors, as do many ordained elders in the Nazarene Church today.

What I find amazing is that over the years since Dr. Oord began teaching evolution and open theism, I have not seen one public statement by any General Superintendent rejecting these godless teachings, or strongly rebuking those who would allow such teaching to occur on Nazarene campuses. Why they have not spoken out clearly on this issue to all Nazarenes is a mystery, since their main duty is to defend and clarify church doctrine. This, which we would call a failure of leadership, is another topic that needs to be raised often.

Dr. Oord has been laid off for supposed financial reasons in the theology department, even though the school is doing quite well on the bottom line. I suspect that if he was actually laid off for his heretical views, and if it was made known to all, that it would open up a free-for-all discussion as to who else should be removed for promoting such heretical views. We could certainly start with a long list of well known college presidents, church pastors, and academics who contributed equally heretical views at the now defunct Nazarenes Exploring Evolution website.

But now, the extremely ARROGANT, evolution-promoting Karl Giberson has, as I expected, chimed in on this latest Nazarene debacle. As also expected, he spares nothing in calling Bible believing Nazarenes names, painting them as uneducated, unthinking and intolerant, and depicting Tom Oord as a martyr in the battle between liberals and fundamentalists. Karl Giberson’s influence is essentially a sad, pathetic footnote in Nazarene college history.

Karl Giberson no longer teaches at Eastern Nazarene College, which I attended years ago. The evil influence of his teaching of evolution and promotion of open theism has probably done immeasurable damage to many students who have gone through the school. The lack of strong leadership at the college was certainly a prime reason that he was allowed to teach there in the first place, and the lack of strong leadership to remove him AND state why, is also a glaring problem that still exists at the school. There is no principled leadership there now,as evidenced by other bad decisions, such as allowing an LGBT support group and a yoga class to be taught on campus.  Thus comes the advice to not only reject ENC as a school for your children, but also to resist funding it in any way until it changes its ways.

It is ironic that this sad man supports Tom Oord, who in spite of his heretical views, at least voices a call to “live a life of love.”   I recall that night at ENC as Dr. Oord completed his lecture, and Karl Giberson sat two seats to the right of me. My challenge to Dr. Oord was expressed, and he responded gently and politely disagreed. I can’t imagine Karl Giberson responding in any way to the same question, except by his usual arrogance and disdain towards those of us who are “uneducated.”

Karl Giberson just wrote an article called “The Fundamentalist Witch Hunt’s New Prey.” You see what I mean? Even before proceeding to read the article, we have a pretty good clue what this man is all about. In my opinion, he hates fundamentalists! (Fundamentalists*, by the way, are Christians who, among other things, believe the Genesis account of creation, and who share a certain number of fundamental points of belief that are pretty solid and orthodox).

I also believe Karl Giberson hates Bible believers.  I believe he hates us with a passion, as evidenced in this sad man’s very own words, time and time again throughout the years. This man needs Jesus.

Here are some of the examples from his latest post:

“A beloved professor forced from a Nazarene university this month is the latest casualty in a war that’s being waged against thinking evangelical Christians”.

This tells us that, for Karl Giberson, unless one believes the way he does, one is NOT a thinking Christian.

“The controversy at NNU is one battle in the long war that is being waged—and slowly won—against thinking evangelical Christians.”

Again, to an elitist like Karl Giberson, Bible believers are not thinkers because we reject evolution, and we reject the nonsensical idea that God cannot know the future, and that God learns from his mistakes.

“In 2007 biologist Richard Colling was forced out of another Nazarene university for his book arguing that evolution was true and should be understood as God’s way of creating. In 2010 I left Eastern Nazarene College (ENC) after years of being attacked by fundamentalists as a heretic for my views on science.”

There are still many who remain n the Nazarene colleges who are teaching this foolishness, that Genesis 1-11 is not true, and that we evolved through random processes. That is a lie, and anyone teaching a lie ought to be removed from their position in any so-called Bible based school.

“Progressive, educated scholars push their traditions to make peace with new ideas, to be open to reconsidering historical positions on human origins, the nature of God, the morality of homosexuality, the meaning of Bible stories, the status of other religions.”

Karl Giberson is a progressive who I am sure would be quite at home if the Church of the Nazarene openly embraced evolution and open theism, accepted homosexuality as normal and not a sin, and placed all other religions on a par with evangelical Christianity. (I don’t know about you, but I am thankful he is gone from ENC). Yet, the Church of the Nazarene seems to be sadly inching towards some of these “progressive” goals, especially in the are of homosexuality and ecumenical equality with Roman Catholicism.

“historian Randall Stephens and I lament that most evangelicals now get their science from young earth creationist Ken Ham, their history from the discredited revisionist David Barton, their social science from the homophobic James Dobson.”

Karl Giberson despises Ken Ham, who I consider an honorary Nazarene for all the reporting he has done about Giberson and other false teachers in the Nazarene denomination. And as you can see, anyone who is for the biblical view of homosexuality is to folks like Giberson, a “homophobic”, not exactly a compliment these days.

“Evolution, alas, is true and most educated people understand that.”

Alas, the arrogance of this man is astounding. I am serious when I suggest that the dictionary should be revised, and that Karl Giberson’s name be part of the definition of arrogance. Yet with all his intellectual pedigree, he fails to see the evidence that a child can understand, that evolution is a lie, and is one of the most insanely stupid ideas ever concocted by man! This is what “higher education” can do to someone who sets aside God’s wisdom, for man’s wisdom. Instead of becoming wiser, men like these become fools in search of their own contrived understanding of God. To compound the problem, they not only damage themselves, but worse, they damage countless students, and are aided and abetted by college presidents who seem to be interested in the bottom line: money. What else can explain allowing such people to teach?

Giberson goes on to opine how, while he was at ENC, “irate fundamentalist pastors” would withdraw financial support from the college because of him. To them, I say thanks for that. That is exactly the message that must be sent to any “Christian” school that allows unbiblical teachings. Yet, if we were really serious about cleaning up the mess in the Church of the Nazarene and its educational institutions, we would know that Tom Oord is just a very tiny reflection of the problem we have now. Thus, I cannot get too excited about the departure of Tom Oord, as if a sweeping change is coming soon, and the house will be cleaned up from top to bottom.

So although the arrogant Karl Giberson will continue to rant and rave and throw his hate bombs at Bible believers in his unique and pathetic style, I can reassure him that for now, there is no revival going on in the Church of the Nazarene, and the false teachers will probably remain for a long time. If I was a gambler, I would even put odds of better than 50-50 that Tom Oord will be back at his position and all will be well again. As much as he may think, that the Nazarene church is being taken over by the “fundamentalists”, it is the other way around. It is going the way of liberalism, and that is what is destroying the church from within.

In the meantime, pray that Karl Giberson will never ever return to teach at any Nazarene college, pray for his soul, and for his repentance. He is truly in need of God’s merciful touch.

* Fundamentalism: Fundamentalism is built on five tenets of the Christian faith, although there is much more to the movement than adherence to these tenets:

1) The Bible is literally true. Associated with this tenet is the belief that the Bible is inerrant, that is, without error and free from all contradictions.

2) The virgin birth and deity of Christ. Fundamentalists believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary and conceived by the Holy Spirit and that He was and is the Son of God, fully human and fully divine.

3) The substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. Fundamentalism teaches that salvation is obtained only through God’s grace and human faith in Christ’s crucifixion for the sins of mankind.

4) The bodily resurrection of Jesus. On the third day after His crucifixion, Jesus rose from the grave and now sits at the right hand of God the Father.

5) The authenticity of Jesus’ miracles as recorded in Scripture and the literal, pre-millennial second coming of Christ to earth.
(Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/fundamentalism.html)

The Removal Of A Dangerous Teacher Must Be Supported

If your pastor stood up at the pulpit and said to you that “God cannot know the future,” what would you think?

If your pastor stated also that “God makes mistakes and that He learns from those mistakes,” what would you think?

If your pastor said that Adam and Eve were simply allegorical tales, and that they were not really historical figures as written in the Bible, what would you think?

If your pastor stated to the congregation that Genesis 1-11 is not fact, and that we were really created through a wildly random process of “evolution,” what would you think?

I would hope that most Christians would be outraged, and would most likely call for the resignation of that pastor.  These are all unbiblical beliefs which should not be tolerate of any ordained minister in the church.

Well, Dr. Tom Oord, who is also an ordained elder in the Nazarene church, has been terminated from his position as a theology professor at Northwest Nazarene University.  I will be following up with another post regarding this outcome, but for now, I want to encourage every Christian on this list and who reads my blog, to go to the following link and express your support for the termination of this professor.  This is not a time to gloat or celebrate the loss of anyone’s job; yet this is also a time to feel some relief, that at least one more professor will not be allowed to teach heretical views to so many students at a Christian school.

I was there at ENC several years ago, when after a lecture by Dr. Oord, and after I quoted relevant scripture to him, he politely disagreed with my position on the origin of sin and death, and solidified my conclusion that he is a false teacher.  He is not alone, and I will expound on that next time.  But for now, I urge you to go to the change.org website and express your support of his termination.  Although the official reason stated was regarding budgetary reasons, I hope and pray that the proper reason that should have been said, was that he was let go because of his anti-biblical views.

If you agree, please go to the site and support Dr. Alexander’s removal of a dangerous teacher:

https://www.change.org/p/dr-david-alexander-we-support-your-removal-of-dr-tom-oord?recruiter=36611337&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

For further information on Tom Oord’s (and others) false teachings:

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/open-theism-and-christian-evolution-at-eastern-nazarene-college/

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/mocking-and-rejecting-god-and-his-word/

https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/nazarene-scholars-continue-to-undermine-belief-in-gods-word-with-evolutions-lie/