Sacramental Nazarenes: Blaspheming The Lord Now?

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!  Isaiah 5:20​

I thought I had seen it all.  Surely there is a limit to their behavior.  But apparently not, and this example shows you how far some will continue to go to bring down the Church of the Nazarene to the gutter it seems.  The following example is a dialogue on the Sacramental Nazarenes Facebook page, a group which also seems to be promoting a closer connection with Roman Catholicism.  The discussion is of an article titled “Eucharist Is How Jesus Makes Love To His Church.”  Really?

When you read the article, please read with caution, and you may not even be able to get through the whole thing.  It is blasphemy, plain and simple.

Eucharist and sex

Have we come to this point now where “Christians” on this Nazarene group are actually going along with this as if it is a good thing?  And notice that not one member has yet stepped in to rebuke such blasphemous talk.  And some people thing we are crazy and are making much ado about nothing, when we warn you that the Church of the Nazarene is becoming an apostate denomination!  Where is the leadership of the Nazarene denomination who are members of this group?  Don’t they see anything wrong with this, and why have they not called out these people for their blasphemous talk?

I’ll let you be the judge of this.  Please note some of the Nazarene leaders who are members of this group:

Ken Stanford, D.S. of New England District;
David Busic, General Superintendent;
Jon Middendorf, Sr. Pastor, Oklahoma First Church;
Roger Hahn, professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
William Selvidge, Assoc. professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
Dean Blevins, professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
Harold Raser, professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
Hans Deventer, NazNet moderator;
Doug Van Nest, D.S. Southwest Ohio District; Peter Rae, Dean at NTC, Manchester;
Henry Spaulding II, President, Mount Vernon Nazarene;
Carla Sunberg, Co-D.S. of East Ohio District;
Mary Paul, V.P. of Spiritual Development, Point Loma Nazarene;
Brent Peterson, Northwest Nazarene University;
Jason Rowinski, Sr. Pastor, Shawnee Nazarene Church;

If you know any of them, perhaps you can ask them why they have not called out these folks for their blasphemous references to our Lord Jesus Christ.  Even a true Roman Catholic who believes in a false gospel, if he saw this discussion, would call these people out for their outrageous blasphemy towards the Lord.  If any of these men and women have seen this post and have not said anything, they ought to be ashamed of themselves.  And if anyone who is a member in this group has any wisdom, they would run far away from this group if it continues with this kind of foolishness. ​

Have they lost their minds?

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17 responses to “Sacramental Nazarenes: Blaspheming The Lord Now?

  1. By publishing this blog post (https://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/sacramental-nazarenes-blaspheming-the-lord-now/) and sharing it on Facebook, you are in breach of your legal agreements with both Facebook and WordPress. According to the Facebook user agreement you entered, “You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook.” As a Facebook user, you have agreed to things like: “Protecting Other People’s Rights – We respect other people’s rights, and expect you to do the same. 1. You will not post content or take any action on Facebook that infringes or violates someone else’s rights or otherwise violates the law.”

    Furthermore, your agreement with WordPress states that “By making Content available, you represent and warrant that: the downloading, copying and use of the Content will not infringe the proprietary rights, including but not limited to the copyright, patent, trademark or trade secret rights, of any third party.” You are in clear breach of your legal agreement with WordPress as well, as the screen shots you posted contain photos that you do not own, thereby infringing on the rights of quite a few third parties; you have taken illegal action against at least 8 people.

    The law states that “Copyright vests initially in the author or authors of the work.” That means I own what I write / post, and you own what you write / post: this applies to both words and profile pictures. Your use of screen shots of the conversation on Sacramental Nazarenes on your blog (i.e. outside of Facebook) is a violation of the law and the Facebook user agreement and is clearly beyond the scope of the Fair Use policy. You simply cannot use people’s words or profile pictures and likenesses without their permission. It is unethical and illegal (not to mention lazy).

    Please remove your blog post (or rewrite it so that it falls within the bounds of the law) immediately as it contains words and likeness of persons taken out of context and used without their permission. If you do not do so within 24 hours, I will take the necessary action with facebook and wordpress to see that your accounts are disabled.

  2. Be interested to see how they explain this away. As well as the leaders who allow this. Its all very public so the rebuke should be as well. But hey you give kids matches and someone sooner or later will get burned. This is all part of the great falling away and the formation of the church described in Rev 17. I guess its not a long stretch to see this happening to so many because they have no true grasp of scripture. From process theology to the false signs and wonders movement. The great awakening will start not with Dan Bohi but after the rapture happens. No surprises here because scripture is just used as a means to make money. Posts like these show their true lack of love and respect for the true Jesus. Who many of them sadly do not know.

  3. One question, or two. What was out of context? I put everything there. I could delete a few of the comments if you wish.

    Aren’t you proud of what you wrote? You should be glad for the publicity, Brannon.

  4. Anonymous,
    Was that YOUR material used? If so, you should probably tell Manny via private message instead of doing this tacky public call-out thing. In fact, you should have addressed this somewhere than a public board anyway. Doing this implies that you have reasons other than ethical for your nitpick.

    Back on topic, Manny, you’re right: this is sickening. Even those who have a different view of the sacraments than traditional Nazarenes would not look at partaking of communion as “erotic.” That’s somebody just trying to be provocative and controversial for the sake of getting views, and it’s a cheapening of the Lord’s Supper.

  5. Hello Brannon:

    We believe this constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

    Manny

  6. When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers! 1 Cor. 6:1-8

  7. Why is it blasphemous to make an analogy between the most beautiful form of human intimacy and the most sacred means we have of physically experiencing the presence of Christ? Paul makes the same analogy when he says that marriage illustrates the mystery of Christ’s love for the church. If that’s the case, then sex is to marriage what Eucharist is to church. Sex itself is not dirty and sinful; what’s dirty and sinful is to abuse it. It seems like you have an axe to grind with the leadership of your denomination and you’re using my post as a guilt by association tactic for discrediting others. Read Matthew 9:10-13. I hope that God will grant you relief from whatever has embittered you. No hard feelings.

  8. And no hard feelings back to you as well. But if you don’t see this as blasphemous, then nothing else will be. Prayers for you and the folks at Sacramental Nazarenes to see the truth.

  9. enterthevein – I did try to contact Manny privately at first, but the email I sent to the only address I could find for him came back undeliverable; this seemed like the most reliable way to ensure he received the message. Also, the comments on this blog are moderated, so it was his choice to make it public.

    reformednazarene – Fair use is a defense against copyright infringement, not a way to give yourself permission to reproduce content you do not own. You can link to http://facebook.com/groups/sacramentalnazarenes – it’s a public group, anyone can read the thread; it will not be deleted. The issue is you reproducing people’s personal photos and words without their permission. Edit the post; remove the screen captures; add a link. It’s a simple fix to correct your ethical misstep.

    P.S. regarding 1 Cor. 6:1-8 – 1) how do you figure this text applies to me and not you? 2) who’s talking about lawsuits? Reporting unethical activity to Facebook and WordPress is not a lawsuit. Give me a break.

  10. Perhaps I got a bit too sensitive thinking you might be implying lawsuit, Brannon. That’s fine, I’m glad you don’t plan to sue me. I still wonder why you object to me publicizing that discussion thread.

    Here are some additional points written by Tim, who is very familiar with copyright laws:

    Here is what the law states.The Copyright Act says that “fair use…for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.” So if you are commenting on or criticizing an item someone else has posted, you have a fair use right to quote. The law favors “transformative” uses — commentary, either praise or criticism, is better than straight copying — but courts have said that even putting a piece of an existing work into a new context (such as a thumbnail in an image search engine) counts as “transformative.”

    Fair use is a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work. In United States copyright law, fair use is a doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, search engines, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. It provides for the legal, unlicensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author’s work under a four-factor balancing test.

  11. Manny,
    Regarding communion, Jesus came knowing that He would be despised, rejected, a man of sorrow, a man acquainted with grief, and destined to die like a common thief on a cross for our sins, yet He came. It is shamefully wrong to associate the Passover communion with sex regardless how it is used. It cheapens what Christ did for us on the cross to turn it into something sensual rather than redemptive. Paul points out all Jesus asks of us after coming to Christ is to remember what He did for us on the cross lest we forget its importance, or take Christ sacrifice in time as of little importance.

    1Co [11:24 –25] “And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. {in…: or, for a remembrance} After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.”

    The Passover has its’ origin in the OT when the children of Israel was in bondage in Egypt, and God through Moses was about to deliver them. You recall the story how Pharaoh refused to let the Israelites go until one final plague was about to take place. The death angel was about to pass throughout the land and every first born was going to die. God’s chosen were spared because the blood of a lamb was sprinkled over the mantel and doorpost of every Jews home. This shedding of blood was symbolic of Christ’s blood that was shed on Calvary for your sins and mine. His blood now spares my soul from a devils hell.

    The Passover had to occur before the resurrection for it to make any sense to the disciples. I do not believe, until later the disciples fully understood what Jesus was saying to them that night when He took the bread and wine and passed it among them. I am convinced, by your blog, that many today do not understand what Jesus did for them on the cross and are substituting it with erotic desires. If Christ had not come to earth and shed His blood for our sins not one person could be saved, past, present, or future. No wonder He asked His disciples and all generations that follow to remember this when we take communion.

    When Jesus took the bread broke it, and gave to His disciples, and took the wine and gave it to them to drink, He was making a new covenant that was to take the place of the Passover. The Passover meal was a temporary reminder of God’s deliverance out of bondage until the final sacrifice meaning (Christ) to be provided once and forever. The bread Jesus broke and gave to His disciples suggests a couple of things to us. First, the bread suggests the staff of life, and the breaking of the bread symbolizes the breaking of Christ’s body in His redemptive sacrifice. The wine symbolizes the blood of Christ that was shed for our sins once and forever. Together they show the true and total sacrifice Christ made for our redemption.

  12. Is Eucharist used with the understanding the wafer and wine become the body and blood of Christ, that He is being crucified afresh? If so, doesn’t making the Eucharist a sexual act, also make it a necrophillic act as well? How is that morally acceptable?

  13. To Brannon and Morgan the Christ you seek is not in the Eucharist. When we take communion we do this in remeberance of what the Jesus of scripture did for us. The real Jesus is revealed in the words of scripture>Jesus died for both of you and wants to save you. Here is the true gospel that can save you both.

    The Bible tells us what the gospel is in 1 Cor. 15:1-4,

    “Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures…”

    The Bible says that we are all sinners (Rom. 3:23). This means that we have all offended God. We have all broken His law. Therefore, we are guilty of having sinned. Because of this, we are separated from God (Isaiah 59:2), are dead in our sins (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:3), cannot please God (Rom. 3:10-11), and will suffer damnation (2 Thess. 1:9). The only way to escape this judgment is by receiving Christ, by trusting in what Jesus did on the cross (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Pet. 2:24).

    Since we are sinners, we are incapable of removing the guilt of our sinfulness through our own efforts. Gal. 2:21 says, “…if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” The Law is the do’s and don’t’s of moral behavior. In other words, we can’t become righteous by what we do. Why? Because we are dead in our sins (Eph. 2:3).

    This means that since we cannot remove our own sins, God must do it.

    Jesus, who is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 8:58; Col. 2:9), bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). He died in our place. He paid the penalty of breaking the Law of God that should have fallen upon us. He satisfied the law of God the Father by dying on the cross.

    It is only through Jesus that we can escape the penalty that God will execute upon all who have broken his holy and perfect law. Do you want to be saved from the righteous judgment of God? If so, if you want to become a Christian and follow God, then you must realize that you have sinned against God, and are under his judgment. You must look to Jesus who died on the cross and trust what he did in order for you to be forgiven of your sentence and be saved from the judgment of God. This is accomplished by faith alone in what Jesus has done. You cannot add any human works to what Jesus has done.

  14. Morgan Guyton,
    Show me in Scripture where the Lord’s Supper is even hinted at as being sexual or erotic in nature. Please. Give me the chapter and verse that makes such a comparison, or even so much as hints at it. I don’t want opinion or mystical experience for verification; that is insufficient and invalid. I want Scripture to back up this claim.

    Whoever wrote this article did so for shock value. This is trying to get people’s attention for the sake of getting attention. As I said, talk to even those who are more literal about the sacraments such as Roman Catholics or Lutherans, and you will not hear them compare the Eucharist to lovemaking. Ever. Yes, sex is not intrinsically evil. But neither should it be compared to the Lord’s Table. It’s inappropriate.

  15. Hi Manny,
    There is a beautiful explaination of Passover and Communion on the website Jews for Jesus July 6,2011 “The Mystery of the Passover Cup”. While the Great I AM chose to use a biological process for procreation He created the process in perfection and sanctification. Sin has debased the purpose and intended use. A discussion of this nature is juvenile and misleading to people who are not believers or weak of faith. A study of pagan religions will show how often they link sex, sexuality and sexual practices with seemly spiritual worship and ideology. BE YE HOLY.
    In Christ,
    Beth

  16. Had Carla Sunberg as a Prof. at NEI School of Ministry. Doesn’t surprise me that she is supporting this.

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