Karl Giberson Needs God In His life

Last week, I sent out a petition asking for support for the “laying off” of Tom Oord at Northwest Nazarene University. Dr. Oord, although a nice guy personally, should not ever have been allowed to continue teaching his heretical views for years at the school. He believes in evolution, open theism, and process theology. He believes the Bible has errors, as do many ordained elders in the Nazarene Church today.

What I find amazing is that over the years since Dr. Oord began teaching evolution and open theism, I have not seen one public statement by any General Superintendent rejecting these godless teachings, or strongly rebuking those who would allow such teaching to occur on Nazarene campuses. Why they have not spoken out clearly on this issue to all Nazarenes is a mystery, since their main duty is to defend and clarify church doctrine. This, which we would call a failure of leadership, is another topic that needs to be raised often.

Dr. Oord has been laid off for supposed financial reasons in the theology department, even though the school is doing quite well on the bottom line. I suspect that if he was actually laid off for his heretical views, and if it was made known to all, that it would open up a free-for-all discussion as to who else should be removed for promoting such heretical views. We could certainly start with a long list of well known college presidents, church pastors, and academics who contributed equally heretical views at the now defunct Nazarenes Exploring Evolution website.

But now, the extremely ARROGANT, evolution-promoting Karl Giberson has, as I expected, chimed in on this latest Nazarene debacle. As also expected, he spares nothing in calling Bible believing Nazarenes names, painting them as uneducated, unthinking and intolerant, and depicting Tom Oord as a martyr in the battle between liberals and fundamentalists. Karl Giberson’s influence is essentially a sad, pathetic footnote in Nazarene college history.

Karl Giberson no longer teaches at Eastern Nazarene College, which I attended years ago. The evil influence of his teaching of evolution and promotion of open theism has probably done immeasurable damage to many students who have gone through the school. The lack of strong leadership at the college was certainly a prime reason that he was allowed to teach there in the first place, and the lack of strong leadership to remove him AND state why, is also a glaring problem that still exists at the school. There is no principled leadership there now,as evidenced by other bad decisions, such as allowing an LGBT support group and a yoga class to be taught on campus.  Thus comes the advice to not only reject ENC as a school for your children, but also to resist funding it in any way until it changes its ways.

It is ironic that this sad man supports Tom Oord, who in spite of his heretical views, at least voices a call to “live a life of love.”   I recall that night at ENC as Dr. Oord completed his lecture, and Karl Giberson sat two seats to the right of me. My challenge to Dr. Oord was expressed, and he responded gently and politely disagreed. I can’t imagine Karl Giberson responding in any way to the same question, except by his usual arrogance and disdain towards those of us who are “uneducated.”

Karl Giberson just wrote an article called “The Fundamentalist Witch Hunt’s New Prey.” You see what I mean? Even before proceeding to read the article, we have a pretty good clue what this man is all about. In my opinion, he hates fundamentalists! (Fundamentalists*, by the way, are Christians who, among other things, believe the Genesis account of creation, and who share a certain number of fundamental points of belief that are pretty solid and orthodox).

I also believe Karl Giberson hates Bible believers.  I believe he hates us with a passion, as evidenced in this sad man’s very own words, time and time again throughout the years. This man needs Jesus.

Here are some of the examples from his latest post:

“A beloved professor forced from a Nazarene university this month is the latest casualty in a war that’s being waged against thinking evangelical Christians”.

This tells us that, for Karl Giberson, unless one believes the way he does, one is NOT a thinking Christian.

“The controversy at NNU is one battle in the long war that is being waged—and slowly won—against thinking evangelical Christians.”

Again, to an elitist like Karl Giberson, Bible believers are not thinkers because we reject evolution, and we reject the nonsensical idea that God cannot know the future, and that God learns from his mistakes.

“In 2007 biologist Richard Colling was forced out of another Nazarene university for his book arguing that evolution was true and should be understood as God’s way of creating. In 2010 I left Eastern Nazarene College (ENC) after years of being attacked by fundamentalists as a heretic for my views on science.”

There are still many who remain n the Nazarene colleges who are teaching this foolishness, that Genesis 1-11 is not true, and that we evolved through random processes. That is a lie, and anyone teaching a lie ought to be removed from their position in any so-called Bible based school.

“Progressive, educated scholars push their traditions to make peace with new ideas, to be open to reconsidering historical positions on human origins, the nature of God, the morality of homosexuality, the meaning of Bible stories, the status of other religions.”

Karl Giberson is a progressive who I am sure would be quite at home if the Church of the Nazarene openly embraced evolution and open theism, accepted homosexuality as normal and not a sin, and placed all other religions on a par with evangelical Christianity. (I don’t know about you, but I am thankful he is gone from ENC). Yet, the Church of the Nazarene seems to be sadly inching towards some of these “progressive” goals, especially in the are of homosexuality and ecumenical equality with Roman Catholicism.

“historian Randall Stephens and I lament that most evangelicals now get their science from young earth creationist Ken Ham, their history from the discredited revisionist David Barton, their social science from the homophobic James Dobson.”

Karl Giberson despises Ken Ham, who I consider an honorary Nazarene for all the reporting he has done about Giberson and other false teachers in the Nazarene denomination. And as you can see, anyone who is for the biblical view of homosexuality is to folks like Giberson, a “homophobic”, not exactly a compliment these days.

“Evolution, alas, is true and most educated people understand that.”

Alas, the arrogance of this man is astounding. I am serious when I suggest that the dictionary should be revised, and that Karl Giberson’s name be part of the definition of arrogance. Yet with all his intellectual pedigree, he fails to see the evidence that a child can understand, that evolution is a lie, and is one of the most insanely stupid ideas ever concocted by man! This is what “higher education” can do to someone who sets aside God’s wisdom, for man’s wisdom. Instead of becoming wiser, men like these become fools in search of their own contrived understanding of God. To compound the problem, they not only damage themselves, but worse, they damage countless students, and are aided and abetted by college presidents who seem to be interested in the bottom line: money. What else can explain allowing such people to teach?

Giberson goes on to opine how, while he was at ENC, “irate fundamentalist pastors” would withdraw financial support from the college because of him. To them, I say thanks for that. That is exactly the message that must be sent to any “Christian” school that allows unbiblical teachings. Yet, if we were really serious about cleaning up the mess in the Church of the Nazarene and its educational institutions, we would know that Tom Oord is just a very tiny reflection of the problem we have now. Thus, I cannot get too excited about the departure of Tom Oord, as if a sweeping change is coming soon, and the house will be cleaned up from top to bottom.

So although the arrogant Karl Giberson will continue to rant and rave and throw his hate bombs at Bible believers in his unique and pathetic style, I can reassure him that for now, there is no revival going on in the Church of the Nazarene, and the false teachers will probably remain for a long time. If I was a gambler, I would even put odds of better than 50-50 that Tom Oord will be back at his position and all will be well again. As much as he may think, that the Nazarene church is being taken over by the “fundamentalists”, it is the other way around. It is going the way of liberalism, and that is what is destroying the church from within.

In the meantime, pray that Karl Giberson will never ever return to teach at any Nazarene college, pray for his soul, and for his repentance. He is truly in need of God’s merciful touch.

* Fundamentalism: Fundamentalism is built on five tenets of the Christian faith, although there is much more to the movement than adherence to these tenets:

1) The Bible is literally true. Associated with this tenet is the belief that the Bible is inerrant, that is, without error and free from all contradictions.

2) The virgin birth and deity of Christ. Fundamentalists believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary and conceived by the Holy Spirit and that He was and is the Son of God, fully human and fully divine.

3) The substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. Fundamentalism teaches that salvation is obtained only through God’s grace and human faith in Christ’s crucifixion for the sins of mankind.

4) The bodily resurrection of Jesus. On the third day after His crucifixion, Jesus rose from the grave and now sits at the right hand of God the Father.

5) The authenticity of Jesus’ miracles as recorded in Scripture and the literal, pre-millennial second coming of Christ to earth.
(Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/fundamentalism.html)

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10 responses to “Karl Giberson Needs God In His life

  1. I am so glad that this world is not my home..that’s all I can really say. I have no words for how far the holiness churches have fallen. I left the church of God (Cleveland Assembly ) because of the charismatic teachings of the Holy Spirit. I love the Nazarene church I attend and truly hope they don’t fall prey to some of these false teachings.

  2. It always makes me laugh (because it is better than crying) to see the term “fundamentalist” used in a derogatory manner. I tend to think that such a person would be quite comfortable in the early Church and with the early creeds. I always like to ask those who view fundies (as we are called) negatively if they would get on a plane where the pilot had not passed the fundamentals of flight, or if they would undergo surgery by a doctor who had not passed the fundamentals of medicine.

  3. Oh its the same one that was sent out on change.org. I had provided a link to it on my last post.

  4. Stupid has no boundaries. It is difficult to debate these Giberson types because they do not go by rules except those they keep changing to suit themselves. We become their Charlie Browns trying to kick Lucy’s football.

    Sent from my iPod

  5. The saddest thing about the idea of “theistic evolution” is that those who cling to it fail to realize that they have essentially denied all of Christianity, whether or not they realize it.

    If you deny Genesis, you in effect deny the rest of Scripture. And that is one of the reasons why people like Richard Dawkins laugh at theistic evolutionists.

  6. How totally conclusive and all-encompassing is ‘enterthevein’s comments.regarding theistic evolution. No one could have said it better. Both my husband and I are Biblical creationists, he, having attended Creation Research Institute’s for a week seminar when it was located in San Diego.

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth….

    The foundation for salvation is creation.

  7. You know, your first few paragraphs were good. But the paragraph starting with “But now, the extremely ARROGANT…” comes across to me, and feels too personal. This is my same issue with the ‘support Tom Oord & NNU’ page people. Both sides are guilty of getting too emotional and sliding into personal jabs. I wish everyone would stop it. It undermines your positions and detracts from the issues at hand. There are a lot of things I agree with you on, theologically here at this page. But sometimes, your tone is “sounds” sinful, and that is hurting you and your cause. I exhort you to try and remember that if you really want to change minds.
    Secondly, I think the title of your blog is confusing people. They discount you because Nazarene theology is not reformed. It seems to me that the Lord brought you to a different understanding than you had been taught in the Nazarene church, and also has given you discernment to the things going on right now with the falling away we are seeing in “Christendom”, and you are wanting to reach out to the Nazarene’s and warn them so they will not be deceived. I agree with you on this and have had a similar experience. But maybe your blog should be something like, “former Nazarene, reaching out to current Nazarene’s in warning” or something. Obviously that is too long. But I think individuals get hung up on the paradox of the name.

    Lastly, on my comment on the Tom Oord post just before this post. Someone named Angie S. on the ‘support Tom Oord & NNU’ quoted me, and said the last part of my comment may come across condescending. I apologize. That was not my intent. I am very passionate about what I believe. That is what I was trying to emphasize, but I can see what you mean. I don’t want to shut anyone down to reasoning with me.
    JG

  8. Thanks for the comment, JG. Most of the comments submitted lately on this topic were pretty ridiculous, or made no sense. I don’t approve too many for that reason. And I have visited the Support Tom Oord facebook page. It was amazing to see the level of immaturity and silly comments all over the place, even coming from ordained elders.

    My description of Karl Giberson as arrogant still stands. It may feel too personal to you, but it is what it is. It was not said as an insult, but stated as fact. His arrogance is evident in what he writes and says about Bible believers. Have you not read his article that I referenced here? I have heard many a Nazarene who knows him to use that very same word. It is a quite appropriate way to describe his personality.

    As far as my blog name, yes, it could be better so as to cause less confusion. If you read my About page, you would find out what I mean by reformed. I have been a Nazarene all my life, and both my dad and my father in law were humble Nazarene pastors who believed in the complete veracity and truthfulness of the Bible, and rejected the nonsense that Karl Giberson, Tom Oord and others today are promoting- that you cannot believe in the entire Scriptures.

    So I stand firmly on what I have been taught through the years, because I have found out that it is true. So if some people get “hungup” on the name of my blog, then to me it shows their lack of spiritual maturity, or the fact that they did not take the time to read my About page.

  9. I commented on another article by Karl Giberson in the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-giberson-phd/an-open-letter-to-a-new-e_b_7870086.html) and asked him two questions about evolution that no evolutionist has ever answered. He also could not answer, instead choosing to make a condescending reply. Here is that comment thread with the questions.

    Milton Orgeron · General Partner at ABC’s Ministries
    This comes from one whose beliefs “evolved” smile emoticon from nominal Roman Catholic to New Age evolution-believing to Christian, not seeing evolution as logically coherent and being in the COTN for a few years now, especially formed by Gary Henecke’s sermons at Nashville Church of the Nazarene for a number of years.

    If I understand correctly, (macro)evolution holds that higher forms such as mammals evolved by random mutations over long periods of time from lower life forms such as birds or reptiles. So I have two questions for evolutionists. And any such replies as I have received as “You wouldn’t understand it, it’s too complicated” or any name-calling or patronizing put-downs are admissions of defeat by someone without a coherent argument. If you cannot phrase your argument broadly in laymen’s terms, your argument probably is not valid.

    Mammals, such as humans, are distinguished from birds or reptiles or amphibians by the young being born alive instead of hatched from eggs outside the mother’s body, by being warm-blooded, by having hair or fur instead of scales or feathers, and by the mother nursing the infants as their nourishment by, well, mammary glands.

    The two questions are:
    1) Assuming the first mammal evolved and was born to a reptilian or amphibian or avian mother, how did it survive infancy, since its mother had no breasts by which to nurse it?
    2) If the hungry mammal infant somehow managed to survive infancy and grow to maturity, how did it find another such mammal that just happened also to evolve at the same time, not millions of years later, and in near enough vicinity to be found, and just happening to be the opposite sex, to mate with and continue the new species? Just some other mammal of a different type will not do, for just as like begets like, like needs very close like for offspring to result, even in the unlikely pairing of two different species of mammals in the wild. Most near-like matings of different mammal species, such as horse-donkey, produce sterile offspring.

    OK, evolutionists, the clock is ticking and the Jeapordy theme music is playing. smile emoticon
    Like · Reply · 1 · Jul 29, 2015 6:47am

    Karl Giberson
    Your question is based on the assumption that there is a gap between “mammal” and non-mammal historically. There is not. Change occurs smoothly. You question is comparable to asking “If a Jewish boy becomes a man at his Bar Mitzvah what does he wear home, since his child clothing won’t fit him any more.
    Like · Reply · 7 · Jul 29, 2015 8:52am

    Milton Orgeron · General Partner at ABC’s Ministries
    Karl Giberson When you say there is no historical gap between mammal and non-mammal you must mean no gap in the extant fossil record, for no human historian was around to observe and record the gap or lack of gap. To assume the extant fossil record is a completely representative sample of all the life forms there have ever been in chronological order is quite a leap of faith in itself. But your reply begs the question. Does “change occurs smoothly” correctly describe random mutations scattered over millions of years as evolutionists claim? And if “change occurs smoothly”, where are all the gradations of species between mammals and lower forms in the fossil record?

    Your analogy of a sudden change in physical size from child to adult caused by a social or religious rite of passage requiring a sudden change of clothing has a couple of category mistakes in it, and is obviously not applicable to evolution of organisms into completely different orders or species. Unless you’re talking about The Incredible Hulk. A Bar Mitzvah doesn’t change a human into another species, only changes his social or religious status in his group. It produces no physical change at all. But thank you for playing.
    Like · Reply · 4 · Jul 29, 2015 9:09am

    Dolores Cordell
    If you do not want to burst your little religious bubble, please do not pay any attention to:

    – Biology
    – Genetics
    – Palentology
    – Physiology
    – Chemistry

    ALL of which confirm the relationship between and evolution of species.

    Do read “Evolution v. Intelligent Design” about the Kitzmiller v. Dover School Board case. The testimony of evidence of evolution was so overwhelming that the Republican Bush W-appointed federal judge John Jones later said that he wished he had allowed it to be filmed.

    If you want an answer to a sophisticated and complex scientific issue, GO STUDY SCIENCE. No one is going to teach you about it in even a 50 line post. That’s why we consider people like you ignorant fools.
    Like · Reply · Aug 3, 2015 5:51pm

    Milton Orgeron · General Partner at ABC’s Ministries
    Dolores Cordell So you also have no answer to two simple questions. Punt to the “experts”. Christianity calls us to a higher standard than that. Peter wrote that “we must always be ready to give a reason for the hope that lives in us” (1 Peter 3:15), and any saved Christian who knows the Bible can do just that. Apparently neither you nor the esteemed Dr. Karl Giberson can rise even to the “ignorant, fundamentalist” Christian standard.

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