Sad Time For The Nazarene Church: A Nazarene Pastor’s Desire For Revival

The Church of the Nazarene needs more voices of holiness pastors to sound the alarm to the people.  I call upon all Nazarene pastors who cherish the truth of God’s holy word, who love their denomination, who love their people, and most of all, who love the Lord Jesus Christ, to speak the truth.  Here is one of those voices.  Thank you brother Kirby for not being silent.

Charles Kirby  Charles Kirby, Charles Kirby Ministries
http://www.charleskirbyministries.com/

Our Mission:  Charles and Bess Kirby have spent 56 years in pastoral ministry, pastoring some of the fastest growing and largest Nazarene churches in the denomination. The last 19 years were at Lake Gibson church in Lakeland, Florida that experienced incredible growth under their leadership. It is obvious God had a plan for them from the beginning in 1961 to resurrect, restore and bring healing to declining churches across America. Every church they have pastored has needed restoration. That has been their ministry from the beginning.   Click here for highlights of their ministries.

A Sad Time For The Nazarene Church

The bones of Phineas F. Bresee, founder of the Church of the Nazarene in 1908, are rattling in his grave in Los Angeles. The doctrine of Scriptural holiness he had preached as the pastor of the First Methodist Church of Los Angeles he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to bring to the new church. The doctrine and the new church spread like wild-fire across America. Scriptural holiness has been the distinguishing doctrine of the Nazarene Church from the very beginning until now. However, compromisers and liberal preachers are doing all they can to destroy the foundational roots that have guided the church through the years.

It guided my parents into the church in 1944 during a revival with the silver-tongued orator, Dr. L.B. Hicks as the evangelist in what became our home church, the First Nazarene Church in Jackson, Tennessee. I preached my first sermon from that pulpit on March 28, 1957, 60 years ago this past March. I have been a career Nazarene pastor for 56 years, pastoring churches across America, the last 19 years at Lake Gibson Nazarene in Lakeland, Florida. It has been an incredible journey for Bess and me!

During this journey of a lifetime, I have been faithful to proclaim God’s Word without fear or favor, and remain true to the doctrines of the Church, including the fullness of the Holy Spirit in every believer’s life through the experience of entire sanctification and Scriptural holiness.

Dr. Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky, states, “For some time now, it has been increasingly clear that every congregation in the nation will be forced to declare itself openingly on the issue of same- sex marriage. That moment of decision and public declaration will come to every Christian believer, individually. There will be no place to hide, and no place safe from eventful interrogation. The question will be asked, and invitation will be extended, a matter of policy must be decided, and there will be no refuge.”

Ladies and gentleman, I never dreamed the day would come when I would be forced and directed by the Holy Spirit to write these lines about my denomination. But that time has come and I cannot be silent! An indication that our moral resolve is weakening, and we are questioning our moral responsibility and leadership as Nazarenes occurred on the floor of the Nazarene General Assembly this past June when 97% of the delegates voted to remove the word “Perversion” from the Nazarene Manual statement on human sexuality as related to homosexuality. Since when did this behavior cease to be a perversion? Our overwhelming action on this appears to be indicative that we have lost our moral courage as a church, and are now more concerned about not offending someone.

  Perhaps the most alarming and disturbing action associated with all of this also occurred during the past General Assembly when leadership of the Nazarene Church permitted for the very first time an exhibition of the rainbow flag and the LGBT letters…worldwide symbols of the homosexual movement.   Click HERE to see the Nazarene Church web site that is sponsoring the booth.  Allowing for the appearance of the rainbow flag and the LGBT letters in full display at an exhibition booth at a Nazarene General Assembly may have seemed innocuous, but it is not. If anything it was naive and foolish, and a betrayal of trust, and I cannot be silent!

I have told general church leaders the past few years that the Nazarene Church was in serious trouble and in a state of decline, but to no avail. I have based the fact of that statement on the response I have received from viewers to my messages from the worldwide web aired from the pulpit of Lake Gibson Church. It has been overwhelming when I have preached against the culture changing the Church rather than the Church changing the culture, and being Biblically correct rather than politically correct.

The only thing that can save us is a mighty move of the Holy Spirit to fill every pulpit in the church until preachers will experience the powerful anointing of God’s Spirit, to be bold in proclaiming the truth found in the Word of God without compromise…a modern day Great Awakening!

Dear God, please revive Your Church!

Charles Kirby

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Advice To Love Wins LGBT And Andy McGee: Remember The Ninth Commandment

“Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.” James 3:1

There is a sense of greater responsibility and accountability when a pastor accuses someone of lying, especially in public.  A pastor is not just any ordinary person, according to Scripture.  He is expected to be a role model, and a good example to others of Christ-like behavior.  Care must be taken that an accusation is supported with facts, otherwise the harm to the accused can have damaging and unfair repercussions.  Many of you reading this have experienced such damaging repercussions. This is about accountability of a public figure for his public statements.  This is about discernment.  This is about honesty. This is about calling out professing Christians in order to seek correction of their errors; nothing more.  I pray that this account will be used by the Holy Spirit to touch Andy McGee’s conscience and show him the truth.

False Accusations

On July 15, Andy McGee, the leader of the Love Wins:LGBT posted on his FaceBook page a statement that accused three people of posting lies about his ministry.  He called out Dr. Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, for posting screenshots that he says were “wildly taken out of context.”   He then brought a Nazarene pastor into the mix, Jeff Allen, who wrote a critique using the same screenshots of Andy’s statements, and Andy stated that the pastor does not like Andy or his ministry. He then pointed out that I also posted the same information on my blog (which I did).  And then came the accusation (the full text at end of article):

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And so the leader of Love Wins:LGBT wants to refute the “lies”.  On Tuesday, July 25, I posted a question to Andy in that same thread.  I asked Andy when he may be writing his rebuttal to the “lies” that have been written about him.  Soon after, I was blocked by Andy, and he deleted my question. In the same post, he says that he has reached out to “each of these men”; but after asking him a pretty reasonable question, he blocked me.

Andy recently unblocked me so that he could tag me with a new post that he published. (I am however prevented from responding to anything he says). He wrote that he is praying for the three men he has accused of lying.  However, he has yet to either support his claim, or apologize for his accusation.  Here is part of what he wrote in this new post:

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What Will Andy Do?

It seems to me that the leader of Love Wins:LGBT is in a difficult situation.  If he never writes his rebuttal, he fails to show how any of these three men are liars, yet his accusation still remains for all to see on his page.  If he does write a rebuttal, how will he do it, since he would be rebutting his own words?  I don’t believe that Andy McGee, an ordained pastor in the Church of the Nazarene, ever intends to rebut any “lies.”  He cannot, because his very words are what were posted!  See the post Sounding The Alarm to read what he himself has said about various matters that are in question.  And keep in mind, this group is getting the support of their district as well as from the leaders of the denomination.

Retiring General Superintendent JK Warrick suggested at a district assembly recently that Andy should probably seek some kind of approval before posting anything on his website.  Is Andy that reckless that he needs prior approval before making statements about his ministry?   I actually agree with that assessment. It was also disappointing that Dr. Warrick called out Dr. piper for stating his concerns about the ministry of Love Wins:LGBT, a concern shared by many Nazarenes and other Christians.  I would like to know what any of the current active General Superintendents feel about the appropriateness of the Love Wins_LGBT agenda, including their inappropriate exhibit at General Assembly.

It is also very disappointing that Andy McGee and other ordained pastors in the Church of the Nazarene have gone after Dr. Piper and Rev. Jeff Allen for simply posting the very words of Andy McGee and stating their opinions as to the appropriateness and purpose of that ministry.  There are few people in such leadership positions as Dr. Piper that I have a great respect for.  Hardly anyone wants to tackle such difficult issues of our time anymore, yet Dr. Piper is willing to do that, and he does it with sound biblical reasoning.  Yet we see on his page countless examples of crude, insulting personal attacks by “pastors” who cannot reason using God’s word.

They then attack Rev. Jeff Allen, a courageous pastor, for also posting the very words of Andy McGee and giving his biblical opinion.  If we had more principled pastors throughout the denomination who were not afraid to speak the truth, perhaps the Church of the Nazarene would be in much better shape.  Sadly, way too many pastors are silent about these issues. 

Yet those same pastors who criticize us fail to justify Andy’s support of same-sex marriage activists, or his applause of National Coming Out Day, or his approval of the Gay Christian Network conference, or his approval of two female homosexual activists who are married.  Why is that?  I believe they are angry that “the light has exposed the darkness”, and the true agenda of Love Wins:LGBT is coming out (no pun intended). 

Why Can’t “Yes” Be Yes, and “No” Be No, For Andy And His Followers?

On the same thread that Andy wrote his promise to “rebut the lies”, we see a question asked of Andy:

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Andy’s reply was quite predictable:

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The word of the year seems to be: polity.  “Yes, we are in line with the polity of…and blah blah blah” is now the standard, template response to every pointed and direct question asked of Love Wins:LGBT.  It’s defenders use the same language in their support of Love Wins.  You cannot get them to answer a question with clarity. When you read the thread, it is almost as if the question was horrible and unreasonable, and yet, it simply is asking for clarity!  But there will be no clarity for a while, because when it finally comes, then the unmasking will happen, and even the gullible Nazarene leaders will have to admit: the Love Wins:LGBT  ministry is a deceptive fraud.

If you read the thread, you will see some of Andy’s supporters, including Rev. Antonie Holleman, chief writer of the five Holland papers on homosexuality that will soon be translated and sent out for you to come to your own conclusions about the Holland leadership and their homosexuality agenda.  Holleman and other supporters vigorously defend Love Wins_LGBT, even while others are excoriating anyone who dares to question this organization’s intentions.  Instead, the modus operandi is always the same: false accusations and demonization of truth tellers, and certainly this latest one takes the cake!  To accuse someone of lies, when that person simply repeated the very words spoken by the accuser? Surely that takes lots of chutpza!

Did God’s Word Tell A Lie Also?

 And then we see another accusation by Love Wins:LGBT, but this time they went after God’s word itself.  One of the resolutions at General Assembly, CA-724 was passed which simply stated that all people are born male or female.  This is pretty obvious, is a reflection of the biblical account, and I shardly needed to be stated in the Nazarene Manual!  Love Wins:LGBT’s position, however, is that God was wrong about this, and that the Bible did not get it right.  There is apparently a third gender called intersex, which refutes what the Bible says. For some bizarre reason, the resolution was later rescinded and slated for “further study” by the General Superintendents.  (We know what happened in 2013 with the Human Sexuality statement, don’t we, when it was tabled for further study).  This is yet another capitulation to the homosexuality agenda.

Here is how Love Wins:LGBT stated their objections:

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So the apparent position of Love Wins:LGBT is that any claim that God created only male and female and nothing else, is a “plainly seen, easily identified, and blatant lie.”  These are the very words of the leadership team of this organization.  And yet, they are allowed to promulgate this nonsense and much more, and now more recently at their district assembly in Kansas City, with the blessings of the district leadership.  What does this say about discernment and leaders making right decisions?  And this leads me to a final note about all this.

What This Is Really All About

This ultimately is not about Andy McGee, or Love Wins:LGBT.  This is about a holiness denomination that has been taking the wrong turn multiple times over the last several decades, and now has ended up going further down a dark alley. And yet, this ministry is setting a dangerous precedent, and I believe it is surely becoming a powerful influence within the Church of the Nazarene. I can almost see four years from now: Andy’s organization will not be the only one at General Assembly with the rainbow colors of the homosexual affirmation movement.  Oh no, my friends.  This is just the beginning… of the end.

So where is the leadership, and what are they saying about all this?  Hey, I don’t know.  Let me know when you find them, they don’t speak to me anymore.  One thing is for sure: they are in some ways responsible for allowing the enabling of this group and letting them take hold of much of the discussion about the Church of the Nazarene and its future.  The topic of homosexuality should not be the central topic of conversation in the church, but apparently it is in good running to be just that.

This is What You Ought To Do, Andy

Andy, if you are reading this, you have publicly charged three men of posting lies about you; a very serious charge indeed.  So I await your rebuttal of the “lies.”  I also would like to understand how anyone took your own statements “wildly out of context.”  This is what you promised to do.  You need to at least keep your word.

 Otherwise, you need to repent for your own sake, and apologize to those you have maligned with your public words.  I do not hate you.  I do not even dislike you.  Believe it or not, I care about you, Andy. This is not a personal thing; it is a matter of accountability.  I urge you to repent of what you are doing, stop hiding your agenda behind pre-programmed answers, and be completely honest with the people.

Manny Silva

Sounding The Alarm On Andy McGee And Love Wins:LGBT

The following facts, using the actual communications made by a pastor in the Church of the Nazarene who has an LGBT ministry, ought to bring up great concern from any Bible-believing Christian:

  1. Why is such a ministry active in the Church of the Nazarene that uses symbols and colors associated with the secular gay agenda?
  2. On what merits was this ministry allowed to have a booth at the General Assembly?
  3. Why have the leaders of the denomination not seen this ministry for what it is- a ministry that cannot even give straight answers to questions?
  4. Why have the leadership and so many churches and pastors bowed the knees to the agenda of the LGBT/homosexuality movement?
  5. Will there be more Love Wins-type of churches forming soon, for the purpose of promoting the false, empty gospel that Love Wins:LGBT promotes?
  6. What is this obsession by the Church of the Nazarene now, to focus so much on a particular behavior that is a sin, like any other sin?

So for your consideration, here is some very disturbing information about Andy McGee, founder of Love Wins:LGBT. Andy McGee has: supported gay activists who promote same sex marriage, praised a “gay Christian” conference, praised a racist organization, praised the National Coming Out Day, and has testified that he is bi-sexual.

This report was written by a Nazarene pastor. I believe Andy McGee and his ministry, and other ministries following the pattern of his organization, is causing great harm to the church and leading many down a false path.

 

Who Is Andy McGee?

Although Pastor McGee says all the right sounding things, tossing around generalities about “building bridges” and ambiguously using fine-sounding words such as “love” and “outreach,” I believe that he may not necessarily mean what he wants everyone to assume. There are other individuals who have sounded the alarm with regards to Mr. McGee, but I have purposely not included any of that material. Instead, I am allowing Andy to speak completely for himself through his own tweets, blog comments, and Facebook postings.

Prior to each tweet(s) or post, I will provide the necessary background information regarding the people and events that Pastor McGee is referring to. Please feel free to verify anything I say. Each post comes directly from either Andy’s personal or Love Wins Twitter accounts or Andy’s personal or Love Wins Facebook pages. (The only exception is Andy’s comment on an article written by Dr. Dan Boone.)

For clarity’s sake and to avoid being repetitive, one final note is in order before proceeding any further:

Any time I refer to “gay Christianity,” here’s exactly what I mean: The false belief that a person can be both a godly/obedient Christian and, at the same time, be homosexually active in a monogamous, same-sex “marriage” arrangement. What I do not mean is a Christian who has same-sex attractions, but remains celibate or is currently living in a monogamous, mixed-gender marriage. The latter is generally and rightly considered to be biblical, but the former is definitely not. Moreover, “gay Christianity” is, as you know, 100% at odds with Nazarene doctrine as well.

So, here we go (and this is only a portion of what I found)…

The President of Trevecca Nazarene University wrote an excellent article in defense of Title IX exemptions, which legally protect a Christian school’s constitutional right to not be forced to affirm homosexual behavior and ideology. Rev. Dan Boone’s article is well worth the read. You can click on this link later to read it:

http://www.danboone.me/title-ix-championing-every-kind-of-diversity-but-christian/

Andy McGee posted the following comment at the end of Rev. Boone’s article. Below, I have included the relevant portion of his comment, but it can be viewed in its entirety (including where he clearly identifies himself as the director of Love Wins: LGBT) by using the aforementioned link.

Andy indicates that transgender people do not simply choose “as they see fit” to transition to the opposite of their birth gender, but instead they only make such a life-altering decision after much time spent in prayer. So, as long as a person prays about it, then it apparently becomes okay to switch from male to female or vice versa. This presumably implies that God answers their prayers and somehow gives such individuals the green light to reject their anatomical and genetic gender. This is just another failed attempt at spiritualizing sin.

You might be wondering, why would Dr. Boone have allowed Andy to speak at his school, given what he said in this comment? I obviously can’t answer for Dr. Boone, but I do know that Andy spoke at Trevecca (July 2015) before making this post on Dan’s blog (Jan. 27, 2016.)

(NOTE: Of all of my specific concerns, this one about Dr. Boone is the only one that Andy has answered during our email exchanges. He said, “I was in no way trying to convey that such decisions were Biblically sound choices but was rather asking that a more loving language be used.” However, please read the rest of what I have found before rushing to any conclusions.)

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SUPPORTING A HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVIST

Here’s a favorable tweet supporting homosexual activist Kevin Garcia. Andy is encouraging Mr. Garcia to “keep being a revolutionary.” What revolution might he be leading, you ask? He’s a self-described “gay Christian advocate,” trying to promote the false notion that Christianity and homosexual behavior are compatible. That’s not the kind of “revolution” any Christian should be cheering on!

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SUPPORTING A “GAY CHRISTIAN” CONFERENCE

Here’s Andy tweeting support for a recent GCN Conference (Gay Christian Network) that he attended, which teaches that we really don’t/can’t know or don’t even have to agree as Christians with what the Bible says about homosexuality. And the last thing a morally-adrift world needs right now is more of that kind of confusion and uncertainty. Furthermore, the speaker that he commends in this tweet (Misty Irons) said in her presentation (21 pages posted on the Love Wins’ Facebook page, which I read) that godly Christianity and “gay Christianity” are not mutually exclusive concepts. She also said a lot of other misleading things in the same speech. Pastor Andy might argue that he was only referring to portions of her speech, but then he really should be more specific to avoid giving people the wrong impression. However, he never does that. He only tweets positive things about those who promote homosexual falsehoods, and he only posts negative things about evangelical individuals who are defending the truth — at least, that’s the only kind of tweets that I’ve been able to find. If, as Andy McGee tweeted, Misty really did “hit it out of the park,” then I would have to say that she hit it “out in left field somewhere!” (He also retweets Allyson Robinson who equates the Gay Christian Network Conference with “revival.” However, the full embrace of its theology would actually be the undoing of the church, not any kind of real revival.)

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SUPPORTING ANOTHER SAME SEX MARRIAGE GROUP

This tweet praises a bisexual activist’s speech at TRPinKC (stands for The Reformation Project conference in Kansas City). The TRP goes even further off the deep end than the Gay Christian Network (mentioned above). The TRP unequivocally supports “gay Christianity” and  “same-sex “marriage.” They also go to great lengths to distort the clear teachings of Scripture on homosexuality to make their deceptive case.

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APPROVING OF MATHEW VINES, ANOTHER GAY ACTIVIST

Tweeting his approval of Matthew Vines, the founder of The Reformation Project (mentioned above). Mr. Vines likes to label anyone who disagrees with his false teachings as a “bad tree” producing “bad fruit.” In other words, those telling the truth are the actual “bad guys.” (There’s more on Matthew later in this post)

Here’s a tweet praising a lesbian activist (Vicky Beeching) who was pushing more LGBT contortionist theology at the same Reformation Project Conference. He calls her an “inspiring voice.” A voice inspired by who? Certainly not God! A voice inspiring us to do what? To abandon solid Biblical teaching on the subject of homosexuality! (And I’ve heard her before on YouTube so I know that’s exactly what she’s been doing every chance she gets.)

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SUPPORTING A RACIST MOVEMENT

Retweeting praise for the racist Black Lives Matter movement, which very recently sent a representative to a Harvard University debate to argue in favor of whites killing themselves because of their “white privilege.” I have also included a link to a video of the Harvard debate for your viewing.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4180/debater-harvard-says-white-people-should-kill-chase-stephens

SUPPORTING VICKY BEECHAM, A LESBIAN ACTIVIST

Here’s a tweet praising a lesbian activist (Vicky Beecham) who was pushing more LGBT contortionist theology at the same Reformation Project Conference. He calls her an “inspiring voice.” A voice inspired by who? Certainly not God! A voice inspiring us to do what? To abandon solid Biblical teaching on the subject of homosexuality! (And I’ve heard her before on YouTube so I know that’s exactly what she’s been doing every chance she gets.)
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SUPPORTING NATIONAL COMING OUT DAY

A Facebook post in support of National Coming Out Day, which encourages people to come out and celebrate their homosexuality. To be out loud and proud…and to publicly embrace the gay lifestyle. Andy describes those who “come out” as being “honest with themselves and with those around them.” Truth is, though, they are falling prey to the world’s lies by succumbing to sin’s deceptiveness!

He also implies that there are only two possible responses that heterosexuals can have towards those that “come out”: Rejection or Celebration. But BOTH are wrong. There is third better way: to lovingly point them to Christ (repentance) and His powerful transformation through the Holy Spirit. After all, I thought we were a holiness denomination, not a sin-celebrating one!

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APPROVING A PRO-HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVIST WHO IS MARRIED TO A WOMAN

Here he tweets his affirmation for open lesbian Jan Shannon, a minister in the liberal UCC denomination, which has completely sold out to the pro-homosexual viewpoint. Following this tweet is a picture of “Rev.” Shannon with her “wife” Deb Roth. So, yet again, Andy gushingly pours out the approval for a woman who is promoting outright heresy and apostasy in her church. Proverbs 28:23 would actually be more appropriate in this case: “Whoever rebukes a person will in the end gain favor rather than one who has a flattering tongue.”

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SUPPORTING ADAM HAMILTON AND RACHEL HELD EVANS, TWO GAY ACTIVISTS

A tweet congratulating Adam (Hamilton) and Rachel (Held Evans) for their appointment to President Obama’s Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. So, these two can now go national with their destructive teachings. In my opinion, congratulations are not in order.

Hamilton’s gay activism is well known to me because he is a United Methodist pastor in Leawood, Kansas, and he was promoting a plan at the UMC General Conference during the Summer of 2016 in Portland, Oregon, which (if passed) would have allow for individual districts to abandon the denomination’s historic stance on homosexuality. This terrible plan would enable pastors to 1. Be openly gay/lesbian/bi/transgender themselves, 2. Preach in favor of homosexuality, and 3. Officiate same-sex “marriage” ceremonies even though all of this currently violates their Book of Discipline (the equivalent of the Nazarene Manual). Hamilton has also written books that push the idea that the Bible does not prohibit all kinds of homosexual behavior.

Rachel Held Evans, likewise, supports same-sex marriage, transgenderism, so-called “gay Christianity,” etc. She has spent a lot of time boasting about leaving evangelicalism for episcopalianism, and as most people know, the Episcopalians have gone gay all the way and effectively ripped their denomination apart in the process. Following the tweet below are links to two of her pro-sin/Bible-distorting/confusion-sowing blogs. Rachel’s second article sings the praises of Matthew Vines’ Bible-mangling book God and the Gay Christian. As you might recall from earlier in this post, Matthew is the founder of The Reformation Project, which is a group that holds conferences all across the country to spread the false gospel of “gay Christianity” and distorts the clear teachings of the Bible on homosexuality. You might also remember that Andy McGee recently attended one of the Reformation Project conferences, and he praised its founder, speakers, and the overall impact of their efforts.

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Rachel’s first article: The False Gospel of Gender Binaries:
http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/gender-binaries

Rachel’s second article: God and the Gay Christian Discussion
http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/god-and-the-gay-christian-discussion-week-6-conclusion

ANDY ADMITS TO BEING BISEXUAL

Finally, I saved the “best” for last. In this tweet, Andy links to a video of his personal testimony. It’s not that the video is entirely bad per se, but it’s just that he buys into the whole idea that our identity is primarily based upon our sexual desires instead of Christ and the image of God. You can click on the link immediately below the following tweet and watch the brief 3-1/2 minute video for yourself.

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Here is Andy McGee of “Love Wins: LGBT,” who spoke at our District Assembly [a few years ago] and set up a booth at our General Assembly (6/2017) in his own words: [NOTE: This link takes you to a YouTube video, but it’s no longer viewable. Since I originally pointed it out, Andy has made it private access. But in the video, Andy describes how he’s bisexual. It’s part of some #stillbisexual movement. If you look under that hashtag on YouTube, you’ll see others doing the same thing. I asked him about this during a Q&A session at our District Assembly [a few years ago], and he affirmed that he is bisexual, but non-practicing. It’s also safe to assume that Andy may have removed some of the incriminating posts mentioned above, and that’s exactly why I saved the screen shots as proof.]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J-WcbSQBv2g

Taken individually, Pastor McGee might be able to explain away single pieces of the above information, but overall, it is my belief that they paint a comprehensive picture of one who supports unbiblical teachings and is endeavoring to subtly disseminate them throughout our denomination.

ONE FINAL NOTE:

At the Mission 15 Conference held in Kansas City on Feb. 11, 2015, Andy McGee, the Director of Love Wins: LGBT, moderated a panel discussion based upon the following question: “What to Do After a Congregant Says, ‘I’m Gay’?”

Below is a transcript of a very disturbing remark made by one of the panelists: Rev. Rick Power, Hawaii-Pacific District Superintendent.

Rev. Powers was specifically asked the following question: “Does being gay make one ineligible for membership and/or church leadership positions?” (The key portions of his quote are printed in bold, and the most appalling portions come near the end of the citation. So, please completely read this quotation in its entirety before drawing any conclusions.)

Here’s Rev. Power’s verbatim answer to the above-mentioned question (see footnotes below for my comments):

“It keeps occurring to me that my view/our view and our convictions on these issues are shaped by our context and our history in this faith community. You know, this is not, our views are not just dropped down out of heaven into our laps.1 They are mediated to us. Our view of Scripture, the way we interpret it, our definition of marriage and our understanding of human sexuality and our definition of sin and all these things come to us through our tradition.2 So, we might pretend like we have a God’s-eye view of these things,3 but really we’re a product of this stream of [indecipherable word], which is a good thing. I mean, I believe the Spirit is at work, speaking to the church, but it’s always mixed with fallibility and sinfulness so I think we have to be humble in our pronouncements.

“This particular question is, uh, I have encountered as a pastor and because of what we’ve learned about sexual orientation,4 uh, having same sex orientation in no way should hinder a person from membership in the church or leadership, but because of where we are in this journey,5 there probably are some qualifications. And so, when a young man who was an outstanding youth worker came to me and came out to me as a gay man, I had some questions for him. I said, ‘Are you now or have you been active in a same-sex relationship?’ And he answered, ‘no,’ because the call is to sexual purity for heterosexuals and homosexuals. Then, the next question related more specifically to his role as a leader in the church. I said, ‘Are you planning publicly to come out, because if you do, this faith community at the present moment is not able to bear that knowledge. And so, as long as you keep this to yourself, you can continue in your ministry role. We have confidence in you. You’re doing a wonderful job. But at such time that you choose to come out, then we’re not going to be able to bear that at this moment in our history. I hope that will change.’ And then, I think it’s also a pastoral responsibility to let people know that there are other faith communities that will affirm them in a covenantal, monogamous relationship, and that perhaps the Spirit would lead them to such a community.6 That’s not my way of saying, ‘We hope you’ll leave our fellowship’ because I don’t want them to leave. I want them to stay and work with us and be a catalyst for change and growth in this area.7 And so, I hope the Spirit will speak to them and lead them to stay, but I feel like it’s a pastoral responsibility to say that within the kingdom, there are other faith communities that have a different stand on this,8 but here in the Church of the Nazarene, we have definition of marriage, we have a view of homosexual activity, and that’s who we are, and again, that’s where we stand at this point on the journey.”5

Here’s the audio Link to hear this for yourself (http://www.graceandpeacemagazine.org/m15-conference-wednesday-session-4-audio).

It’s the last audio file in the list, entitled: “What to Do After a Congregant Says, ‘I’m Gay’?”

Rev. Power’s words begin at the 17:53 mark and runs until 22:11.

FOOTNOTES:

1, 2, 3 Each of these phrases seem to downplay the inspiration of Scripture, and overemphasize the traditions and ideas of humanity. However, through the Bible, we do have truth “dropped down out of heaven” and “a God’s-eye view” of human sexuality and the definition of sin.

4 Modern understandings of sexual orientation may be somewhat helpful, but ultimately, we’re all oriented towards sin (born with a sin nature). Therefore, much of our contemporary psychobabble is in direct conflict with biblical teachings.

5 Rev. Power repeatedly talks about our “journey” regarding the COTN’s stance on the issue of homosexuality. In speaking of our “definition of marriage” and “view of homosexuality,” he concludes his comments by stating “that’s where we stand at this point on the journey.” But that’s were we should stand FOREVER. The Word of God is NEVER going to change so neither should our beliefs regarding homosexuality.

6 Rev. Powers thinks that in certain instances, it’s his “pastoral responsibility” to point people to churches that affirm homosexual relationships and homosexual behavior. AND he shockingly thinks that the Holy Spirit might actually lead members of the LGBT community to these same apostate churches!? The Holy Spirit is definitely NOT going to direct anyone to a church that lies to them and leads them to hell. The Devil might do this, but not the Holy Spirit…NEVER!

7 Based upon portions of this quotation, I can’t help but wonder what kind of “change and growth in this area” that Rev. Power might have in mind. Personally, I don’t think his ideas for change are in accord with the doctrines of the Church of the Nazarene.

8 Once again, Rev. Power refers to his “pastoral responsibility” to let people know about other churches that have “a different stand on [homosexuality].” And shockingly, he says that they are “within the kingdom.” NO, THEY ARE NOT! These deceiving churches are most certainly and completely outside of the kingdom of God.

The Nazarene “Love Wins LGBT” Group Clarifies Their Intentions

Update on Wednesday, June 28

I have received enough information that leaves in doubt the accuracy of the FaceBook post by Andy McGee that was reported by me.  A pastor, Chet Todd, has confirmed to me that he spoke with Andy shortly after that posting, and testified to me that Andy was upset that the original question to him was edited to make it look like it was something that was not.  Andy then proceeded to delete his answer.  I am accepting Chet’s testimony on this, and will post completely as Andy wishes to, or leave it here with a this explanation for others who have read this sin the past to see.

In all my nearly 400 articles, I have never had to retract something, other than minor corrections of information.  But when it cannot be clearly shown to be true without a doubt, I will correct what needs to be corrected.  (This in no way changes my opposition to the ministry of the Love Wins:LBGT group and how Andy McGee is promoting his positions)

Manny Silva

 

 

Original Article:

The Love Wins:LGBT group operates under the auspices of the Trinity Family MidTown Church of the Nazarene. They have had a presence at the General Assembly since at least 2013, where they have presented a workshop about their “ministry” to the LGBT community, including a booth last week displaying their many colors.

In a stunning moment of candor, the group responded to a question on a FaceBook post, which asked about their intentions. The text is shown here for clarity, and the original post is also shown.

Question:
Is it your hope that the Church of the Nazarene will eventually become a welcoming church (and rid of language such as “perversion” when referring to gender identity)? Are you pushing for having open and affirming stances for Nazarene congregations?

Love Wins:LGBT

That’s the goal. We hope that the church will welcome ALL in. ALL.

 

I’ll let you come to your own conclusions.

Update on Tuesday, June 27: In the spirit of fairness

Andy McGee has disagreed with what I posted, and he says that it is “fake news”.  Andy believes that the question was edited after Andy responded, and therefore distorted the meaning of his answer.  I will honestly say that I am not sure whether I accept that explanation.  I am doing some research to verify some other things about this situation, now that Andy has contradicted what looks like something obvious. I have my own questions in response:

1. Andy, why did you not respond with an immediate refutation of the person who asked the question, instead of simply deleted your answer?
2. Why would someone who himself has the LGBT colors in his own profile (an apparent ally), want to trick Andy with something like that?

There are many, many questions that, for me and many others, have not been fully answered by Andy and Love Wins:LGBT about their ministry.  I continue to seek those clear answers from them.  I will be writing a post soon that will address the LGBT / homosexuality issue again, not only with regards to Andy’s group, but the entire denomination.  In all this, I will say that not once have I been angry at Andy personally, nor do I dislike him personally in any way.  That is not me, regardless of what others may say about me.  I may sound harsh at times, but that harshness is always directed at the things that are being promoted in the Church of the Nazarene, or at the behavior of a person- and are intended to hopefully correct anyone who is in error- according to Scripture, not according to Manny Silva.