Saved, Sanctified, Sacramental Nazarene Pastors: Hypocrites In Their Own Words

“Your own mouth condemns you, not mine; your own lips testify against you.” Job 15:6

Everyone who is in a battle for the truth and dealing with corrupt shepherds and false pastors, will get the same treatment. It is what they do best, because they have abandoned the truth. It does not matter whether you are a “nobody”, or a pastor, or a college president. They will try to take you down and make you out to be a hater, or a fool, or un-Christ like if you don’t go along with their false doctrines. And the response to these people is to just keep exposing the “unfruitful works of darkness…and reprove them. Don’t back down from them. Jesus did not back down. Paul did not back down. Neither should we.”

(The comments that I am pointing out today by certain pastors are nothing new to me. They have been directed at me and others for years, and we are used to it. If I wrote an article for every time such comments surfaced in public, it would be pointless and distracting from my ministry to do so. Once in a while, however, I believe it is necessary to call out those in responsible positions (pastors especially) who speak in ways that are outside of what God expects from pastors).

If a pastor were to attack someone’s theology and doctrine, I would have very little problem in dealing with a fair argument and disagreement. But when they attack the person rather than the positions of that person, then they need to be exposed for their behavior. If you are a pastor, you especially need to take ownership for your public pronouncements. If any of these pastors are embarrassed from what I show you today, they have no one to blame but themselves. Matthew 18 does not apply in such situations, since they have already pronounced their judgments publicly.

Sacramental Nazarenes is a liberal-leaning Nazarene FaceBook group. I believe there is something very wrong with some of the pastors in this group. These are the kind of pastors that are unlike those I have known, such as my father and father-in-law. In all my life, I never heard those two men speak in such ways as these pastors do. I believe that these folks need the Holy Spirit to touch them at the core of their soul. I feel sorry for them, especially since they seem to believe they can hurt me by throwing insults my way. These people are living sad lives when they focus so much on me, because it is all so much more than about me.  It is about false doctrines in the church and the wolves that have crept into the church! Yet, they continue with this bizarre and obsessive focus on me. Perhaps it is a way of assuaging their guilt in some way.

Sacramental Nazarene Admins And Their View of Homosexuality

Before we go on to what they wrote, look at part of Sacramental Nazarene’s basic statement:

“What this group is NOT…a place to: debate divisive topics like politics or homosexuality; criticize, label, judge, rant or condescend.  (Group admins reserve the right to delete posts they deem inappropriate.)”

Isn’t it odd that a sin such as homosexuality would even need to be seriously debated? But on the other hand, why would debating about any kind of sinful sexual behavior be considered divisive? Do they also consider other sexual sins such as adultery, or lust, or pornography, or fornication, or incest, as also being divisive topics and unworthy of “debate?”
Is homosexuality a special thing that has special meaning to them? Do some of these pastors even believe homosexuality is a sin? How many of these pastors would clearly and without ambiguity declare that homosexuality is a sin? Think about how these folks might view homosexuality in the light of this position statement. I do not believe it should be taken lightly. I believe it is part of their makeup, part of their leanings towards acceptance and “affirmation.” This is very dangerous in my opinion, and any statement such as “we are in alignment with the ‘polity’ and manual of the Church of the Nazarene” should never be taken as the final answer.

Oh the irony and hypocrisy of it all, as apparently the rants, the judging, the condescension directed at me is okay with the admins of this group.

Sacramental Nazarene Pastors And Their Behavior

The discussion was started by an ordained Nazarene pastor, Greg Farra. He is a member of NazNet, a Nazarene group that is dominated by emergent church and liberal types who promote non-Christian ideology. Here is what he said, after apparently going through my blog with a fine-tooth comb searching for an “indicting” statement, and then predictably putting his own spin to it (“refused to admit it publicly”).

Note the “seriousness” of ordained pastor Greg Farra, who I am sure would have no problem with prayer labyrinths or praying the rosary. He, like most of these Sacramental Nazarenes, is highly interested in Roman Catholic ways, with formal rituals and procedures, with wearing collars that imitate Catholic priests. He and his friends seem far less concerned with true Christianity, biblical doctrine, and holiness. He is more concerned with ecumenicalism and compromise with the world. My opposition to ecumenicalism is only one of the reasons that he tries to use me as a punching bag. What a waste of his time.

But more seriously, Greg Farra believes in the Roman Catholic heresy of transubstantiation- the belief that the bread and wine of communion actually does become the real body and blood of Christ. This is heresy being introduced by a Nazarene pastor! And they call me crazy and not a true Nazarene?   I wonder what the General Superintendents think of this? What does his District Superintendent think of this?

Bob Hunter

Bob Hunter is interesting. He has gone after me for years and said many nasty things about me, mostly on NazNet discussions until I was cast out for doing far less than most of these guys say. I don’t know what his status is today, but I believe in the past he was an ordained Nazarene pastor. I could be wrong. Nevertheless, please pray for Bob.

Greg Farra’s Way Of Handlng All Matters

Greg’s seemingly cavaliar attitude towards the principle of “defending the faith” speaks loudly when he talks about the ELCA. After his previous derogatory words, pastor Greg says that he wants to “approach all matters in love first and foremost.”   But then…

It did not take long for Greg Farra to forget his determination to “approach all matters in love first and foremost.”   That is called hypocrisy. This is what they always do. They speak from one side of the mouth and do something different soon after. “Clouds without water… fruitless trees… wild waves of the sea.”

David Troxler

David Troxler is a pastor in the New England District. I assume David claims to be a saved, sanctified Nazarene. Here then are the judgmental words of a saved, sanctified Nazarene as he talks about me:

“so against joy”, “bitter spirit of judgmentalism”, “personal crusade against all things of the Spirit”, “he is to be pitied for his condition”.

Note to David: My wife, my pastor, my few close Christian friends who know me pretty well, would certainly have taken me aside and lovingly spoken to me in the hopes of helping me. But you obviously think otherwise. You judge me like that, rather than refuting the actual specific claims that I always make. You cannot do that because you have no biblical argument, so you resort to ugly, personal attacks. Tell me, if a Christian from your church were to express their concerns like I do, would you treat them the same way? I will pray for you too.

Bob Hunter’s Psychoanalysis

And then Bob Hunter chimes in with the usual phoney psychological analysis he has been doing for years on me. I wonder if he can be charged with practicing without a license?  Several years ago, Bob expressed the desire to come to my house with his dog so his dog could do something on my front lawn. This was also said publicly, although it was one of the milder things he has said about me.

Gary Creely Thinks I Want To Make Nazarenes Into Something Else

Note to Gary: A diversionary tactic by Rev. Gary Creely, used by many of his friends. I know exactly what it is that the Church of the Nazarene has traditionally believed, until folks like you came along. And no Gary, I am not, nor ever have tried to change any denomination to something else. What I have tried to do for over eight years is to simply warn as many Nazarenes as possible about pastors like you, who are dedicated to changing the Nazarene denomination into more of a resemblance of Roman Catholicism, than the holiness denomination it claims it is. Bad, bad analysis Gary, especially since you have been reading my blog for so many years. You ought to know by now what purpose God has called me for, and it is to expose the false teachings and you and your friends have been promoting for years.

David Troxler Insults My Father:

So David Troxler, as others have done lately, manages to insult the late Rev. Ilidio Silva. David was not satisfied to stop with insulting me.

David, if you are reading this, you obviously have no idea who my father was. If you did, you would know that he was the epitome of what it means to be a Nazarene, and he would have no trouble with what I am doing. Did you know that he was a Roman Catholic as a young man when he was saved from that evil religion; the same religion that so many, including you David, are making excuses for and holding hands with? He would never have accepted this compromise that you and so many New Englanders are involved with now. He was a true Nazarene, saved and sanctified, who would pray for hours early in the mornings for folks like you who have deviated from the true path of holiness teaching. Your words illustrate the pettiness so many of you show towards anyone who is against your liberal emergent church agenda. David, you need to repent, and ask God to clean your heart, and to put a right spirit within yo

Cam Pence Makes The Same Argument As Greg Farra

Cam Pence is also an ordained Nazarene pastor, and a longtime NazNetter. He also, in spite of being familiar with my writings, is delusioned by some idea that I want to turn the Nazarene church into fundamental Baptists- although I have no problem with Baptists. But he totally does not yet understand what I am doing, and why. Either that, or he is simply being disingenuous and does not want to admit what the battle is really all about in the Nazarene denomination.

One Reasonable Voice

 

I may be getting this last pastor in trouble, since I am commending him. But I must be fair about all this.

So there is Rich Schmidt. He is the only one from the “opposition” who spoke with a reasoned voice in all this. I don’t believe that in all my years at NazNet that he ever personally insulted me. I do believe he understands what the battle really is, and even though he disagrees with me on most of the issues, he did not step into the gutter as most of these pastors did. I respect that very much, and I believe Rich saw some of the comments for what they were, and tried to encourage some semblance of civility and fairness into their conversation. He did not speak out to agree with my views, but only to express a saner viewpoint that was a counterbalance to these hypocritical pastors and their very personal attacks.

The Conclusion: IT’S NOT ABOUT ME!!

The behavior of these hypocritical pastors illustrates that it is far from being about me. Not at all. We have seen in recent months the vicious attacks by Nazarene pastors and even some Nazarene leaders on Dr. Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University. Dr. Piper is a voice of reason, a man of integrity, a truth teller. He is not one who seeks to “please men.” As Paul eloquently says in Galatians 1:10, so too Dr. Piper “would not be a servant of Christ if he tried to please men.” Yet, we have seen Love Wins:LGBT and their leadership blatantly telling lies about him, and not being held accountable for those lies.

We have seen Rev. Jeff Allen being excoriated by them, also being accused of telling lies. One pastor even recommended bringing charges against him, for telling the truth! We saw eight years ago how Pastor Joe Staniforth was driven out of the denomination, for speaking out against the heresies of the emergent church. We have heard of Jason Bjerke, being told by the New England District bigshots that he would not likely be ordained because he believed in the inerrancy of scripture. It is evident to me that they want the truth tellers and biblical pastors out of the church, and the heretics to be welcomed!

Folks, make no mistake, we are in a battle with evil within the church. Satan is using many pastors now to promote not only ecumenicalism, and contemplative spirituality, but now the LGBT homosexuality agenda. In fact, you really need to ask your own pastors to give you straight answers about their views on homosexuality. Their answer may not end up clarifying anything for you. Satan is using these people to try to shut up folks like me, but also to shut up pastors of integrity and honesty who do not wish to see the Church of the Nazarene go the way of an apostate denomination. Do NOT let them silence you!

Dr. Walter Martin was right a few years ago, when he said:

“the danger to the church, from within, is the person who wears the cloth of Christ… and who stands behind the sacred desk, and who is unfaithful to the word of God. That is the ultimate danger to the church. The corrupt and apostate shepherds who infest our theological seminaries and our colleges, and fill our pulpits… and who know not God, do not believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and will stand in the way of anybody that wants to preach it!   The cancer is within, and it eats away, and we don’t recognize it.  Or when we do recognize it, we don’t do anything about it. We are so careful to preserve the wolves in the church, and so slow to defend the faith of the church!”

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A Few Note​s

​Concerns for a lot of things continue in the Church of the Nazarene.​   I am still finishing up translations, and when done, will post the General Assembly update and assessment of the “health” of the church sometime next week.  The prognosis is not good, although there remain some faithful and discerning churches; but will they survive?  Since General Assembly, more things have come to light that confirms the sickness spreading through the church.  Signs and wonders is now gaining a foothold in the church as you will continue to see in future reports.  The Gospel message is absent many times, yet our main concern is souls that need to be saved, and new Christians who don’t know better are being misled.  Thus our continued reports and exposing of even seemingly “small things” will not stop.  “A little leaven” comes to mind, and we cannot let these “little” things take a foothold, or as they say, allow the camel’s nose to get under the tent.​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.  Eph. 2:8-9​

A Facebook group called Sacramental Nazarenes has proven to be an in-your-face declaration that Roman Catholic thought is here among many Nazarenes, including those in leadership.  This group is shamelessly promoting Roman Catholic thought, ritualism, and contemplative practices.  Yet, when we shine the light on them, some of them protest the fact that we are exposing them!

Now there is the increasing use of Roman Catholic imagery and icons.  For instance, a District Superintendent, Carla Sunberg, who is a member of Sacramental Nazarenes displayed on her Facebook page a gift of an icon depicting a “saint” from the Eastern Orthodox Church, Saint Macrina.

Who was Macrina?

A little research about this “saint” tells us that she was the daughter of Basil The Elder, and a sibling of Saint Gregory of Nyssa.  She was engaged to be married, but after her fiancée died, she dedicated herself to her religion, becoming a nun.  Her younger brother Peter helped her turn her family estate into a monastery and convent.  Not surprisingly, Macrina was a monastic, and also was known for adhering to an ascetic ideal.  Asceticism is a lifestyle that is characterized by abstinence “from various worldly pleasures; it is “is the practice of strict self-denial as a means of attaining a higher spiritual plane.” (1)  She slept on boards and kept no possessions.  Many claimed that she had the power to heal others.

In Luke 9:23, it says: “And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.”  But asceticism takes this command to great extremes, including the inflicting of bodily harm on oneself, eating very little food, living in isolation, and other extremes.   Nowhere in Scripture are we told to purposely seek out physical discomfort or pain.  Yet, most of these saints participated in this unbiblical practice, to one extreme or another.

Regarding some of her beliefs, in his book The Ancient History of Universalism, Universalist Hosea Ballou claimed that Macrina was a universalist also, based on her writings, and that she believed that the wicked in purgatory would all eventually confess Christ.  Purgatory of course is one of the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and several other sister religions.  J.W. Hanson also cited her as a universalist in his book Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church.

So in responding to a friend’s questioning why she posted this picture (“Why? Are we Catholic now?”), Carla responded with this answer:

“Robert, I’m sorry you misunderstood this gift from my husband. I did my doctoral dissertation on holy women of the 4th century. The original holiness women. They were amazing and their lives even influenced John Wesley. The most famous of the women was Macrina. There are no pictures of her — only icons. There is no icon worship here — simply a gift from my husband representing six years of research that led me to understanding holiness in a very powerful way. This is much like having a picture of Phoebe Palmer. Therefore I am and always will be a Nazarene — but I also happen to be a professor of Church History, especially focusing on the early years of the church. May you too know the transformational power of the Holy Spirit who took a young teenage girl, Macrina and turned her into a woman who ministered to and helped to touch the lives of thousands of people in the region of Pontus and Cappadocia where she lived.”

Is holiness to be truly understood by the study of people who practiced asceticism and monasticism?  Does the Holy Spirit really motivate someone to “touch many lives” by leading them into practices that have no basis in Scripture?  Did Carla Sunberg miss answering this question in her six years of research?  John 16:13 says that “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.”  Since practicing monasticism, asceticism, and universalist thought is not of God, then we can only conclude that Macrina was not transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit, but was changed by another “spirit.”  How could Carla Sunberg have missed this?

The continuing and growing trend of Nazarenes, including leaders and pastors, to embrace, and quote, and admire “saints’ of the Roman Catholic Church or Eastern Orthodox Church, and them claim they were great influences on John Wesley, is very troubling.  I am not trying to beat up on Carla Sunberg, because she is not alone in this “new phenomenon.”  But she is a leader in the church, and she was a serious candidate for General Superintendent this year.  As I have said before, the national leaders (General Superintendents) have let this go on without comment, giving their tacit approval for pastors and other leaders to promote “saints” who taught ungodly and works-based practices.

How far will it go?  Well, here, you see a Nazarene pastor at a confessional booth at St. Peter’s Church in Rome.

In his comments, this pastor said he wanted to remind his friend that he did not forget his roots.  Really?  This may well be his real roots, but apparently he has forgotten what the Reformation was about.  Perhaps he never heard of the pope’s “shock troops”, known as the Jesuits and led by St. Ignatius, who vigorously and enthusiastically persecuted and killed many Christians.  Yes, those roots; people who tried to deny ordinary Christians access to the Bible.  Apparently the seminaries are failing to teach history to our future pastors, and here is the result.

Am I missing something here?  Am I protesting too much?  Can the leadership at least put it in writing and officially declare what is already happening in the Church of the Nazarene?  At least hypocrisy can be set aside, and they can be forthright with the people.

(1) http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-asceticism-monasticism.html

Sacramental Nazarenes: Blaspheming The Lord Now?

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!  Isaiah 5:20​

I thought I had seen it all.  Surely there is a limit to their behavior.  But apparently not, and this example shows you how far some will continue to go to bring down the Church of the Nazarene to the gutter it seems.  The following example is a dialogue on the Sacramental Nazarenes Facebook page, a group which also seems to be promoting a closer connection with Roman Catholicism.  The discussion is of an article titled “Eucharist Is How Jesus Makes Love To His Church.”  Really?

When you read the article, please read with caution, and you may not even be able to get through the whole thing.  It is blasphemy, plain and simple.

Have we come to this point now where “Christians” on this Nazarene group are actually going along with this as if it is a good thing?  And notice that not one member has yet stepped in to rebuke such blasphemous talk.  And some people thing we are crazy and are making much ado about nothing, when we warn you that the Church of the Nazarene is becoming an apostate denomination!  Where is the leadership of the Nazarene denomination who are members of this group?  Don’t they see anything wrong with this, and why have they not called out these people for their blasphemous talk?

I’ll let you be the judge of this.  Please note some of the Nazarene leaders who are members of this group:

Ken Stanford, D.S. of New England District;
David Busic, General Superintendent;
Jon Middendorf, Sr. Pastor, Oklahoma First Church;
Roger Hahn, professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
William Selvidge, Assoc. professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
Dean Blevins, professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
Harold Raser, professor at Nazarene Theological Seminary;
Hans Deventer, NazNet moderator;
Doug Van Nest, D.S. Southwest Ohio District; Peter Rae, Dean at NTC, Manchester;
Henry Spaulding II, President, Mount Vernon Nazarene;
Carla Sunberg, Co-D.S. of East Ohio District;
Mary Paul, V.P. of Spiritual Development, Point Loma Nazarene;
Brent Peterson, Northwest Nazarene University;
Jason Rowinski, Sr. Pastor, Shawnee Nazarene Church;

If you know any of them, perhaps you can ask them why they have not called out these folks for their blasphemous references to our Lord Jesus Christ.  Even a true Roman Catholic who believes in a false gospel, if he saw this discussion, would call these people out for their outrageous blasphemy towards the Lord.  If any of these men and women have seen this post and have not said anything, they ought to be ashamed of themselves.  And if anyone who is a member in this group has any wisdom, they would run far away from this group if it continues with this kind of foolishness. ​

Have they lost their minds?